Series Spanning Plot Threads

[betaflame]

Just a few points I thought might be worth including,

Blood Rites:
-Mavra burns Harry's Hand. (A minor point with almost no long lasting implications beyond forcing Harry to beef up his shield.)

Dead Beat:
-Wizard healing/longevity are introduced.
-Both Evil Bob and Grevane refer to necromancy as "The True Magic". It is different enough from normal magic that it stains the user. Grevane (and Ulsharavas from DM) can sense it in Harry. Harry can sense it in Cowl.

Not sure if any of those are Thread worthy, just a couple observations.

[Serack]

Just a few points I thought might be worth including,

Blood Rites:
-Mavra burns Harry's Hand. (A minor point with almost no long lasting implications beyond forcing Harry to beef up his shield.)

Dead Beat:
-Wizard healing/longevity are introduced.
-Both Evil Bob and Grevane refer to necromancy as "The True Magic". It is different enough from normal magic that it stains the user. Grevane (and Ulsharavas from DM) can sense it in Harry. Harry can sense it in Cowl.

Not sure if any of those are Thread worthy, just a couple observations.

The Hand burn is significant.  I've been tossing around how to include it, but the thing is, I have already written up a great reference about Harry's Power Ups, that does a great job of emphasizing the significance of that event... I think I might add a reference to that topic near the top of this reference and let it serve as the reference for any events that touch on Harry's power as a thread in and of itself.

[Viktor]

Is there any way I can vote for/request that you remove the individual spoiler tags and just put one big one in the subject line?

I really enjoy this topic, but it's annoying to have to do that every time I check for updates.

(Yes, I'm lazy)

Edit due to too many posts: Got it, Serack, thanks.

[Serack]

Is there any way I can vote for/request that you remove the individual spoiler tags and just put one big one in the subject line?

I really enjoy this topic, but it's annoying to have to do that every time I check for updates.

(Yes, I'm lazy)

These spoiler tags do /not/ serve to hide "spoilers."
They serve souly to compress this gargantuan reference into bite size pieces.

Edit:  For now, the way this topic is set up, the only thing you would have to worry about actually spoiler tagging for the purpose of hiding spoilers is any information dealing with Cold Days and some of the recent short storys.

I will evaluate weather or not I wish to change the title to accomidate for those later, but it is likely this topic will be LONG TERM, and a year from now the title will have to accomidate for book 15's spoilers... yadayada... I'll finish up to GS for now then worry about spoiler tags

[Viktor]

Book #4: All about the fae, even called Summer Knight.
Book #14: Apparently all about the fae, and was almost called Winter Knight.

I had a theory about that:
The way you can play on the words of this title make me think that Jim is messing with us/throwing us some info here.

What I mean by that is: When I think of the word Summer I tend to think of as "hot/warm/bright" etc. Yet Night (phonetically) is typically cooler/dark.
On the opposite end of that: Cold Days - Why? Daytime is usually sunny/warmer, so you associate Day with warmth or at least Sunshine. (Yes, these are broad strokes i'm painting here, I realize that during winter daytime can be freaking freezing in most parts of the world.)

I think this is one of Jims' patented "I'm going say one thing that can be interpreted literally (as in, Cold Days = Servitude/Bad times for Dresden) but is also a way of telling us that things are terribly terribly wrong in the background. Summer AND Winter are behaving outside of their patterns, and this is leading up to Big Bad Things.

[AcornArmy]

Dead Beat:
-Wizard healing/longevity are introduced.
-Both Evil Bob and Grevane refer to necromancy as "The True Magic". It is different enough from normal magic that it stains the user. Grevane (and Ulsharavas from DM) can sense it in Harry. Harry can sense it in Cowl.

I think we're dealing with two different types of magic here, each with two variations. There's normal magic, "the magic of life," which comes from all living things. This can be corrupted into black magic, which Harry hates and to which he reacts badly. Then there's necromantic magic, or, I suppose, "the magic of death," which is Grevane's magic, and which is what(I believe) he and Evil Bob were referring to as "the true magic."

Then, lastly, there is what Kumori did with that random dead guy on the street in Dead Beat. She warded his soul into his body somehow to prevent him from dying. Harry noted that the coldness of necromancy was there on the scene, but that it didn't have the sense of corruption to it that usually came along with the coldness of necromancy. And Kumori herself said that she had basically perverted necromancy into serving life, sort of the way normal magic can be perverted into destroying life as black magic.

So, there's normal magic and necromantic magic, and each one can be used either to serve life or to destroy it. Kumori said that one's purpose had to be strong to use necromancy in the service of life, though, which would seem to indicate that it's easier to use necromancy for destruction than for preservation. When normal magic is used for destruction-- I think this is the typical form of black magic that's shown in the books, the stuff that sorcerers are good at. Necromancy is usually used as black magic, though, and until Harry saw the signs of Kumori's spell in DB, he apparently didn't even think it could be used for anything other than black magic.

And, I guess, the stuff that Outsiders do is some other form of magic altogether. Unrelated to normal magic or necromancy, I'm guessing.

This is all conjecture on my part, though, put together from the various pieces of information in the books. I don't have any solid evidence that things work exactly this way, except that this description seems to fit with all of the information we've been given over the course of the series.

[Serack]

Is there any way I can vote for/request that you remove the individual spoiler tags and just put one big one in the subject line?

I really enjoy this topic, but it's annoying to have to do that every time I check for updates.

(Yes, I'm lazy)

Edit due to too many posts: Got it, Serack, thanks.

E-McB just suggested to me due to your comments that when this topic goes to sustain mode rather than the initial build push, I should add a last update time into the spoiler tag title.  Sounds like a great idea.

[Cozarkian]

I'm thinking of labling this thread "Harry Fights for Rehabilitation & Empowerment" (HFfR&E)

That works for me.

The Hand burn is significant.  I've been tossing around how to include it, but the thing is, I have already written up a great reference about Harry's Power Ups, that does a great job of emphasizing the significance of that event... I think I might add a reference to that topic near the top of this reference and let it serve as the reference for any events that touch on Harry's power as a thread in and of itself.

I agree the hand burn is significant. Harry seems to get power ups in two forms - increased assets (Bob, Lasciel's coin, soulfire, sanctum invocation, mom's pendant, WK mantle) and more significantly from patching weaknesses. The hand burn is an example of the latter, where Harry is putting his experience to use to improve his skills. It belongs in a category with improving veils from teaching Molly, the use of dual elements, learning to build stronger foci, and becoming less dependent on foci. Personally, I think this latter type of power up is more significant because it represents the growth of Harry as a character.

The hand burn is also significant for another reason - it highlights Mavra as one of Harry's most dangerous opponents. Many of Harry's enemies are just doing their own thing and Harry gets in the way, but Mavra actually takes the time to study Harry and learn his weaknesses. There are only a few other instances where enemies have tried to do that. Bianca showed some understanding of Harry in PG (but could have been coached by Mavra) but she ultimately proved she didn't truly understand him when she tried to trade for Susan's life. Nicodemus has demonstrated an even better understanding of Harry, but ultimately underestimated Harry (he didn't expect Harry to actually defeat and change Lasciel's shadow - although to be fair, I'm not sure anyone would). Mavra has arguably been the most successful in understanding and manipulated Harry (she burned his hand, escaped with incriminating photos and successfully blackmailed him later). Lea and Marcone should also be considered, although they are quasi-allies, while Mavra thus far appears to be pure enemy.

[betaflame]

*snip*
This is all conjecture on my part, though, put together from the various pieces of information in the books. I don't have any solid evidence that things work exactly this way, except that this description seems to fit with all of the information we've been given over the course of the series.

I've come to the same conclusions based on the hints/explanations we've been given.

[Serack]

When did Harry first start having /significant/ headaches?  SmF?

[AcornArmy]

When did Harry first start having /significant/ headaches?  SmF?

He had them in SmF, yes, but the headaches in SmF didn't start until after he got kicked in the face and had his nose broken. The book didn't open up with him having headaches. Turn Coat did open up that way, though, mentioning that the headaches had been continuing for the past several months. But I think it's important to note that there seems to have been something like a year and a half between SmF and TC-- SmF takes place in November of 8 ASF and TC takes place in the summer of 10 ASF-- so "the past several months" wouldn't seem to come close to covering that amount of time.  This, to me, suggests that the headaches in TC are unrelated to the headaches in SmF.

At a guess, the sequence of events seems to have been: the SmF headaches got better, Harry's nose healed, and a year or so passed. Then, several months before Turn Coat, Harry started getting headaches again, migraines, with no apparent cause. Many people, myself included, believe these were probably the Ice Cream Headaches of Paradox.

[Serack]

He had them in SmF, yes, but the headaches in SmF didn't start until after he got kicked in the face and had his nose broken. The book didn't open up with him having headaches. Turn Coat did open up that way, though, mentioning that the headaches had been continuing for the past several months. But I think it's important to note that there seems to have been something like a year and a half between SmF and TC-- SmF takes place in November of 8 ASF and TC takes place in the summer of 10 ASF-- so "the past several months" wouldn't seem to come close to covering that amount of time.  This, to me, suggests that the headaches in TC are unrelated to the headaches in SmF.

At a guess, the sequence of events seems to have been: the SmF headaches got better, Harry's nose healed, and a year or so passed. Then, several months before Turn Coat, Harry started getting headaches again, migraines, with no apparent cause. Many people, myself included, believe these were probably the Ice Cream Headaches of Paradox.

I thought the quacker had tied them to a similar headache associated with Mab's Memory mod involving his fire magic, thus tying them to the "tarp" over LC.

[AcornArmy]

I thought the quacker had tied them to a similar headache associated with Mab's Memory mod involving his fire magic, thus tying them to the "tarp" over LC.

I don't remember much about the "tarp over LC" idea. It always seemed kinda flimsy to me, seemingly based entirely on a lack of mention in Changes, rather than the mention of any specific evidence.

Harry did have sharp, piercing headaches whenever he tried to remember his blasting rod in SmF, but those weren't continuous things. They seemed to happen whenever his thoughts got too close to the subject of fire magic, which Mab had blocked from his mind. They weren't an always-on thing, and they passed without Harry even really noticing them, except to think, "Wtf??"-- at least, up until Michael brought it to his attention, and then he collapsed.

But those headaches didn't leave him lying on the couch with a migraine on and off for months, the way he was at the beginning of Turn Coat. For a memory-mod headache to do that, from the example shown in SmF, Harry would have to be constantly reminded of something he'd been forced to forget. Otherwise the headache would pass and he'd move on to thinking about something else, the way he did in SmF-- at least, if the example of the fire magic block in Small Favor is indicative of how those kinds of headaches work. It doesn't seem like Little Chicago would be something which would demand his attention frequently enough to account for the migraines in TC.

Aside from that, I don't remember anything about the tarp/memory-mod theory. Someone else will have to describe it, if you want to add stuff in about it.

[Cozarkian]

I thought the quacker had tied them to a similar headache associated with Mab's Memory mod involving his fire magic, thus tying them to the "tarp" over LC.

The quacker's theory is that JB used a tarp to provide a clue that Mab was the source of both headaches. The first time because she removed Harry's memories of fire magic, the second time because she removed his memories of LC. Even if this theory is correct, the headaches were not continuous - they first series stopped in SmF and the second started pre-TC.

[Serack]

I don't remember much about the "tarp over LC" idea. It always seemed kinda flimsy to me, seemingly based entirely on a lack of mention in Changes, rather than the mention of any specific evidence.

Harry did have sharp, piercing headaches whenever he tried to remember his blasting rod in SmF, but those weren't continuous things. They seemed to happen whenever his thoughts got too close to the subject of fire magic, which Mab had blocked from his mind. They weren't an always-on thing, and they passed without Harry even really noticing them, except to think, "Wtf??"-- at least, up until Michael brought it to his attention, and then he collapsed.

But those headaches didn't leave him lying on the couch with a migraine on and off for months, the way he was at the beginning of Turn Coat. For a memory-mod headache to do that, from the example shown in SmF, Harry would have to be constantly reminded of something he'd been forced to forget. Otherwise the headache would pass and he'd move on to thinking about something else, the way he did in SmF-- at least, if the example of the fire magic block in Small Favor is indicative of how those kinds of headaches work. It doesn't seem like Little Chicago would be something which would demand his attention frequently enough to account for the migraines in TC.

Aside from that, I don't remember anything about the tarp/memory-mod theory. Someone else will have to describe it, if you want to add stuff in about it.

Here's the best writeup of the quackers description
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,32663.msg1452190.html#msg1452190