Author Topic: Hypnotism in DFRPG  (Read 2508 times)

Offline Gatts

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Hypnotism in DFRPG
« on: November 12, 2012, 01:25:40 PM »
So I'm going to be playing a charlatan in a 19th century exploration game in the Dresden Files system, and I intend to be using sleight of hand, suggestion and hypnotism to convince people that my character has 'voodoo' powers. Most of this is easily handled with deceit, performance and intimidation with a few stunts but I'm stuck on hypnotism: I can't work out how to model it. I assume I'd need a stunt of some kind under deceit and have 'Hypnotism' be a new trapping, but how would it work? I want it to be at least mostly realistic, so it certainly wouldn't be a mental attack - hypnotism works mostly with the unknowing cooperation of the subject. Manoeuvres  on the other hand wouldn't allow me to use long term anchoring, or suggestions.

I don't want to complicate things too much, but I would like a reasonable model for hypnotism to show my DM, who has already okayed the concept. Any help or suggestions are welcome.

Offline Mrmdubois

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Re: Hypnotism in DFRPG
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2012, 03:39:15 PM »
Maneuvers can be placed long term with justification.  Especially if the target doesn't know they have an aspect placed on them and thus takes no action to remove it.

Placing such an aspect could also easily be the result of a Taken Out effect in a social conflict.  Which works just fine, some people are more susceptible to hypnotism than others.

I also don't think it would be inappropriate to make it a Mental conflict. It's true hypnotism happens with the unconscious cooperation of the target, but you need to be able to help get the target into that proper state of mind. 

Offline Gatts

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Re: Hypnotism in DFRPG
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2012, 03:49:45 PM »
Maneuvers can be placed long term with justification.  Especially if the target doesn't know they have an aspect placed on them and thus takes no action to remove it.

Placing such an aspect could also easily be the result of a Taken Out effect in a social conflict.  Which works just fine, some people are more susceptible to hypnotism than others.

I also don't think it would be inappropriate to make it a Mental conflict. It's true hypnotism happens with the unconscious cooperation of the target, but you need to be able to help get the target into that proper state of mind.

I didn't know that about manoeuvres, I suppose I should read the book more thoroughly before I post. Do you think I should take a Hypnotist stunt, to justify placing Aspects that last longer than a scene?

As for combat, I can sort of see what you mean but the idea of inflicting stress rubs me the wrong way.

Offline tetrasodium

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Re: Hypnotism in DFRPG
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2012, 05:54:47 PM »
hypnotism started to catch on back then as a result of Franz Mesmer's work in "animal magnitism"  (no really! http://www.historyofhypnosis.org/franz-anton-mesmer/).  He was big on showmanship, but that was also why hypnosis is motly a stage act instead of an "eh, ok" curiosity like acupuncture or chiropractors.  Essentially, mesmer was half right... his metaphor was working, but he attributed its efficacy to the wrong thing & he was eventually discredited when others started to do research on his animal magnetism theory. resulting in hypnosis being little more than a stage show for hundreds of years.

It was not until more recently when Milton Erickson ( http://www.historyofhypnosis.org/milton-erickson/) put things together  and figured out how hypnosis actually works (it's rather simple & easy to learn).  Essentially, in metaphorical terms a hypnotist hops a fence in the subject's mind/stands in the street, and convinces the kid in the yard to start moving furniture in the house. 

That may sound strange, but the hypnotist can't "make" the subject do anything, they can convince them it's a perfectly reasonable idea however!  Few would go up on stage & piss themselves, or attempt to have sex with a tree... if they believe they are alone in a bathroom, or the tree is the "hottest supermodel ever" & begging for it though.... the audience is in for a laugh.

Hypnosis could easily be modeled via assessments (rapport to figure out who he think is is the hottest woman ever) followed by placement of aspects like "wow [the hot woman] is right there!" and "she's calling for me & we are all alone!" to use an easy & context free example.

Given the timeframe, you have one other thing going for you that you might not realize... Doctors were extremely respected & for most quite difficult to see, if the doctor tells makes time for you & you to do something, you give it more weight than if joe blow did!

Geberally speaking, The first step in hypnotizing someone is to place the subject into a trance.  The subject is perfectly aware while in a trance, their mind is just elsewhere.  There is nothing wrong with being in a trance (we go in & out of them all the time).  one very well known type of trance is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_hypnosis highway hypnosis :).  Amusingly enough, many of the standard inductions rely on things that ill happen naturally & letting the subject's subconscious believe the hypnotist is causing it.  Imagine a window in the top of your skull, squeeze your eyes shut tight & try to look up  (you physically can't do both!;).  here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5rXsq3ZL9o) is a nice example induction, Your blood pressure will drop very slightly & muscles will relax somewhat during an exhale while seated, if a hypnotist is telling you to follow his hand down  each exhale, the subconsciousness kid just shrugs & starts to listen to the guy starting to talk about moving the furniture around :). There are a lot of different types of inductions, none of them are "best".  Here is a pretty good example of an "instant" induction known as a handshake interrupt, but it's blown up to be easy to follow without knowing what's happening.  it also has a good explanation compared to a fast one. Most importantly however is the last thing he says about keeping your cool when a subject does the unexpected, play it off as expected & encouraged while parrying it off into a direction you want to go using the momentum it builds for the hypnotist :)

a lot of people think that hypnosis will only work on stupid people, it's actually easier with smarter people because a hypnotist can weave a more tangled & multilayered tapestry among other things, anyone can be hypnotized.

An overy induction is not always strictly necessary, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqszfa3aVi8 is an example of weaving one into a conversation complete with some hypnotic anchoring (the casual shoulder tap) http://learn-underground-hypnosis.blogspot.com/2007/12/learn-underground-hypnosis-anchoring.html

If you want to learn a  more without having to actually learn hypnosis, go to youtube (or whatever) & watch

With that said, if you can give a bit more detail about your aim with things, I can try & give more info :)

I'd suggest a stunt for an enhanced reading people kind of thing as well by the way
« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 06:03:53 PM by tetrasodium »

Offline Gatts

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Re: Hypnotism in DFRPG
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2012, 05:59:54 PM »
That's very in depth, Tetrasodium, thank you very much. I'm taking some notes now, and I'll post again if I have any questions.

Offline tetrasodium

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Re: Hypnotism in DFRPG
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2012, 06:23:07 PM »
That's very in depth, Tetrasodium, thank you very much. I'm taking some notes now, and I'll post again if I have any questions.

Sure, I tried to keep things a little bit generic, feel free to ask if you have questions about any specific areas now/once you have a better  idea where it could take you & where you want to go:)

Offline Mrmdubois

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Re: Hypnotism in DFRPG
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2012, 06:25:00 PM »
I would probably recommend a stunt for being able to hypnotize people, yes.