Modular Abilities Expanded

[Sanctaphrax]

For the most part I like Modular Abilities. But I feel like it could do more than it does. And it bugs me how sometimes there's just no point buying a Power when you could just get more Modular Abilities points.

So, here's a plan that ought to fix that.

When you take Modular Abilities, you define a list of Options. Options are generally each a single Power, but you can take multiple Powers as one option if you want.

All Option lists have to consist of Powers that conflict with one another. No taking Evocation and Thaumaturgy and trying to pass off only being able to use one at a time as a significant drawback.

When you take a Power as an Option, you have to define everything variable about it. So if you have Evocation on your list you need to define your specialization and your foci. So you could totally have Modular Abilities that lets you switch two Evocation specialities.

The rest is like normal Modular Abilities, except that the extra charge isn't always 2 Refresh. Instead, it varies based on the number of Options on your list.

A bunch of pre-generated Option lists would be provided, so that people who just want basic Modular Abilities need do no more work than the RAW would make them do.

For the most part I think this is a good plan. But there are three issues:

1. How many Options should you get for a given Refresh surcharge? I current charge 1 Refresh for 2 Options in Quasi-Modular Abilities, and canon Modular Abilities offers at least two dozen Options for 2 Refresh.
2. What should you get if you take less Options than your Refresh surcharge entitles you to? Should the GM just snicker at you for being suboptimal?
3. Should there be any consideration given to people who have a lot of very similar Options? I mean, technically "Any Echoes Of The Beast" is a lot of Options. But it's not all that impressive. On the other hand, it's definitely worth more than one Option.

[Sanctaphrax]

Okay, I thought of a solution to the problems mentioned in the first post. It involves our old friend and enemy, vagueness.

In other words, you write out what your options are and the GM assigns a value based on highly scientific method known as eyeballing.

Examples and guidelines will of course be given. Here are the guidelines I'm planning:

1 Refresh surcharge for 2 significantly different Options that are usable in the same type of scene, or for a wide variety of very similar options. Examples: turn into a bear or a bird, use fire powers or ice powers, use any variety of Natural Weaponry, use any variety of Echoes Of The Beast.

2 Refresh surcharge for a large set of options that are all usable in the same type of scene. Examples: canon Modular Abilities, the Power Lavecki121 is trying to come up with in the thread that inspired this one.

3 Refresh surcharge for extremely broad sets of options or options usable in multiple types of scene. Example: Swap out wizardry for physical Powers, canon Modular Abilities plus some illusion and shapeshifting stuff, the ability to use any item off of the Resources Board IoP list.

How's that sound?

[Addicted2aa]

Okay, I thought of a solution to the problems mentioned in the first post. It involves our old friend and enemy, vagueness.

In other words, you write out what your options are and the GM assigns a value based on highly scientific method known as eyeballing.

Examples and guidelines will of course be given. Here are the guidelines I'm planning:

1 Refresh surcharge for 2 significantly different Options that are usable in the same type of scene, or for a wide variety of very similar options. Examples: turn into a bear or a bird, use fire powers or ice powers, use any variety of Natural Weaponry, use any variety of Echoes Of The Beast.

2 Refresh surcharge for a large set of options that are all usable in the same type of scene. Examples: canon Modular Abilities, the Power Lavecki121 is trying to come up with in the thread that inspired this one.

3 Refresh surcharge for extremely broad sets of options or options usable in multiple types of scene. Example: Swap out wizardry for physical Powers, canon Modular Abilities plus some illusion and shapeshifting stuff, the ability to use any item off of the Resources Board IoP list.

How's that sound?

first one is good, but 2 and 3 still suffer a bit from vagueness. Is there anyway we can quantify the difference between extremely broad and simply large? Or can we give a few very pointed questions about how to interpret the difference, like, If it can be used in 9 out 10 scenes the gm can come up with it's -3.

[Llayne]

2 points should either be raw (primarily physical) or primarily mental/magical. Modular abilities that you take any power freely should be 3... or more.

[Lavecki121]

What about if you have it so that the refresh cost is the amount of categories that you are choosing from. Categories would be as follows (as they are in the book):

1. Creature Features
2. Fairy Magic
3. Minor Abilities
4. Never-never Powers
5. Psychic Abilities
6. Shapeshifting
7. Speed, Strength, Toughness
8. Spellcrafting
9. Vampirism

Though this seems like a lot (since if you wanted access to every ability you would have to prepay 9 refresh) but currently modular lets you access only certain abilities. It is fairly restricted since it only cover 1, 7, and some of 2. Its part of the power rule. This would allow you to take any power as long as it is in your selected categories.

Example: If I only want access to Creature Features, it would be a prepay of 1 refresh. But if later I decided I want to pick up some vampirism, it would cost another prepay. Ect.

This may not be a perfect system but it was what I thought up. Any comments?

[Sanctaphrax]

first one is good, but 2 and 3 still suffer a bit from vagueness. Is there anyway we can quantify the difference between extremely broad and simply large?

I'll try to make it clearer when I write the final Power.

Part of the distinction is that in 2 your options interfere with one another more. In a situation where Strength is useful, Speed likely would also be useful. So only being able to use one of the two is a big deal. But in a situation were Strength is useful Glamours is likely to be useless. So being able to use only one of the two matters less.

Which means that a 2-cost set could include Speed and Strength, but not Glamours and Strength unless it was rather small.

What about if you have it so that the refresh cost is the amount of categories that you are choosing from.

Not a good idea, unfortunately.

The categories have no mechanical weight...they don't do anything rules-wise. Changing that adds another variable to the design of each Power for no real reason.

Also, the categories are not remotely balanced against each other. Faerie Magic contains like four Powers, and having two makes the other two redundant. Creature Features contains like a dozen Powers, with some that have multiple variants. Plus there are a lot of homebrew Creature Features.

And finally, that would really limit the usefulness of the Power. For example, it'd make your Zodiac Power idea impossible.

[Lavecki121]

For example, it'd make your Zodiac Power idea impossible.

Meh. It would make it a -4 at most. Plus modifying it would make it less. However I feel the weight of each category could be lessened if you combined some categories. But that still is by making some categories such as magic, available to the modular abilities track.

[Sanctaphrax]

Your suggestion does not allow for Modular Abilities variants that grant some Powers, but not others, from a category. It also does not allow for multiple Powers to be bundled into one Option.

I'm not saying that your zodiac Power would be overpriced by your suggestion. I'm saying that it would be impossible.

Unless, of course, your suggestion also includes a bunch of other rules that you didn't tell us about.

Even then, though, it's an awful idea.

Categories absolutely should not have mechanical weight. Because if they have mechanical weight, then every new Power must be balanced with its category in mind. Which is an enormous hassle.

[Mrmdubois]

I think he meant for each category to have a weight of (-1), so it's not really a hassle per se as much as it is just not necessarily a good idea.

Also, is there something wrong with modular abilities usually only giving you creature features, building block abilities and glamours?  I just can't see why you would care that's all you get and not just pony up the Refresh for all the other powers.

[Sanctaphrax]

I think he meant for each category to have a weight of (-1), so it's not really a hassle per se as much as it is just not necessarily a good idea.

Not what I meant. By "have no mechanical weight" I meant they mean nothing in mechanical terms. Sorry if that was unclear.

The hassle comes from needing to worry about categories when writing Powers. And in having to restrict re-fluffing.

"No, you can't describe your Breath Weapon as a form of Evocation. That'd be unbalanced with Modular Abilities."

Also, is there something wrong with modular abilities usually only giving you creature features, building block abilities and glamours?  I just can't see why you would care that's all you get and not just pony up the Refresh for all the other powers.

Not sure what the question is here.

[Mrmdubois]

I mean that what's wrong with modular abilities as is?

But I feel like it could do more than it does. And it bugs me how sometimes there's just no point buying a Power when you could just get more Modular Abilities points..

This seems self-contradictory, because you're trying to make modular abilities do more.  It makes it even more useful to simply get modular ability points.  Which you already said is something you don't like.

[Sanctaphrax]

Look over at Lavecki121's other thread. Modular Abilities can't do what he's after there.

I think it should be able to do what he's after there.

(Also I just had to hash out the limits of Modular Abilities with a PC who wanted to do something slightly different.)

The fix I propose here wouldn't necessarily let modular points do more: in many cases, they'd do less. And more importantly, it'd let the guy who buys Inhuman Recovery when he has Modular Abilities get something in exchange for removing Inhuman Recovery from the list of things his Modular Abilities can give him.

[Mrmdubois]

See, to me that's the point of buying things other than modular abilities, you have it, it's always available, now all those modular points can be spent on other stuff.

As for Lavecki's thread, I've read it.  I don't see anything wrong with simply building it as an IoP, giving it modular abilities, and switching between those abilities each talisman is supposed to provide, thus representing multiple talismans.  Extra refresh can be spent toward using more than one at a time.  Or on talismans that are capable of things that modular abilities specifically doesn't cover, but I'm not sure which those would be.

I assume the character you're talking about is Martin.  I haven't looked over his character sheet, but I haven't seen the modular abilities do anything strange thus far.

[Sanctaphrax]

See, to me that's the point of buying things other than modular abilities, you have it, it's always available, now all those modular points can be spent on other stuff.

Under canon Modular Abilities, Inhuman Recovery plus 5 points of Modular Abilities is in no situation better than 7 points of Modular Abilities. Because you can just leave two of your form points invested in Inhuman Recovery at all times if you really want to.

Under my proposed revision, by taking Inhuman Recovery outside of your Modular Abilities you can acquire the ability to use Modular Abilities for something else. And so there's actually a reason to do it.

As for Lavecki's thread, I've read it.  I don't see anything wrong with simply building it as an IoP, giving it modular abilities, and switching between those abilities each talisman is supposed to provide, thus representing multiple talismans.  Extra refresh can be spent toward using more than one at a time.  Or on talismans that are capable of things that modular abilities specifically doesn't cover, but I'm not sure which those would be.

Canon Modular Abilities cannot provide telekinesis or Spirit Form or the ability to animate inanimate objects. Also, it cannot require you to take your Powers in set patterns. Lavecki121's proposed Power would not allow you to take Inhuman Strength from Ox with Breath Weapon from Dragon, but canon Modular Abilities would.

I assume the character you're talking about is Martin.  I haven't looked over his character sheet, but I haven't seen the modular abilities do anything strange thus far.

Ophidimancer was interested in using Modular Abilities for Glamours (EDIT: True Shapeshifting). And KnightOrbis is using Modular Abilities in a totally non-canon way. Actually KnightOrbis is basically already using the revision I'm planning here.

[Mrmdubois]

Fair enough, so there are some limitations to RAW modular abilities.

Are you basically setting this up so nothing is off limits via modular abilities though?  Because yeah it's basically going to become the accounting hassle of weighing options that you want to avoided you do it that way.  I mean, the game is like that already to some extent, but with your house rules about modular abilities you're looking at that times two as people try to figure out the pros and cons of two powersets or more that they can switch out because they're modular.