Articles of Faith Defense

[MagusVulpes]

I'm just wondering if there's a mechanical way to express defending yourself with your faith (such as against a BCV or Demonic Shade using a crucifix or seal of Solomon). Would it simply be used as a Block against the opponent using your Conviction as the Blocking skill? If so, (and this is probably a GM ruled thing) would it work against all creatures with a Holy catch listed? Moreover, would they get an attempt to break through it with something like Discipline or would their attacking skill take precedent?

Sorry, a bunch of questions that I don't know the answer to and couldn't seem to track down, but my kungfu might just need more work.

[Lamech]

I'm just wondering if there's a mechanical way to express defending yourself with your faith (such as against a BCV or Demonic Shade using a crucifix or seal of Solomon). Would it simply be used as a Block against the opponent using your Conviction as the Blocking skill? If so, (and this is probably a GM ruled thing) would it work against all creatures with a Holy catch listed? Moreover, would they get an attempt to break through it with something like Discipline or would their attacking skill take precedent?

Sorry, a bunch of questions that I don't know the answer to and couldn't seem to track down, but my kungfu might just need more work.

I would probably go with a block. And yes, the vamps use whatever they want.

[Tedronai]

Anything that can be prevented by a block can break a block.
Nothing that ignores a block can break a block.

Thus, the discipline action would only have the potential to break the block if that action would have the potential to be prevented by the block.

There really is not such thing, however, as an action taken to break a block.

[Mr. Death]

I would probably go with a block. And yes, the vamps use whatever they want.

I'd say they'd have to use Discipline--this kind of thing isn't supposed to be something they can punch through or dodge through, so to me it doesn't make sense to let them use their attack or athletics skills.

[Tedronai]

I'd say they'd have to use Discipline--this kind of thing isn't supposed to be something they can punch through or dodge through, so to me it doesn't make sense to let them use their attack or athletics skills.

If the block is meant to be able to hinder their attack or athletics skills, then the MUST be able to use them to break the block.

[Locnil]

I was fairly certain that such a thing was treated as a compel as per RAW.

[Lamech]

I'd say they'd have to use Discipline--this kind of thing isn't supposed to be something they can punch through or dodge through, so to me it doesn't make sense to let them use their attack or athletics skills.

Yeah... but the RAW rules... I would say that's a good houserule though. I still feel like there was an oversight in the rules for the whole articles of faith.

[Tedronai]

I was fairly certain that such a thing was treated as a compel as per RAW.

Compel as you will, but then you're not dealing with a block.  You're dealing with a compel that may or may not be accompanied by a block.

[Mr. Death]

If the block is meant to be able to hinder their attack or athletics skills, then the MUST be able to use them to break the block.

Thing is, though, it's not a physical barrier--it's not so much a block against being hit or approached as it is a block against the creature's nature. No matter how fast or strong a Black Court Vampire is, for example, it shouldn't be able get past faith-stuff by punching really well. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Thinking about it, honestly, invoking the creature's nature against it makes more sense to me than anything. Really, any block will include the possibility of the creature breaking through it and attacking anyway. Even if it makes more sense to me that a high discipline would allow the creature to get through it, it still doesn't seem to fit with the setting.

[Sanctaphrax]

As aforesaid, a block only blocks the things that can break it. So you can't really treat a faith-block as a block against Discipline.

If that's not appropriate, make it a Compel. Which is arguably better anyway, because it's not very fair to allow physical Conviction blocks against some characters and not against others unless you're handing out Compels or using a stunt with some kind of semi-narrative limit.

That being said, it makes perfect sense to me that a good Fists roll would punch through a faith block. Fists is not just a measure of your punching skill, it's also a measure of your desire to inflict harm and the effort you throw into each strike.

PS: I'd allow actions specifically to remove blocks. It might not be specifically allowed by RAW, but for non-magic blocks that don't go away when broken it makes sense and is reasonably balanced.

[atavistic]

It really comes down to a form and function sort of issue.  You could model an act of faith as a block, in which case the creature in question has to tough it out and fight through the block to get at you.  Or you can model it as a maneuver using faith against discipline and then just invoke for effect on its turn to prevent its attack and repeat as needed, until he pays the FP to act or you fail the maneuver roll.   In the same vain, the creature being blocked could use a skill that you aren't blocking against, like say discipline or intimidate and plant an aspect on you that it then invokes for effect to compel you to not block for the same sort of result.  either way you whip out your holy symbol and it has to change strategies.

OR you could use your conviction to make a decoration of "holy symbol" make a social action against the creature, and then just tag it for a bonus on the social attack, and hopefully place a consequence that you can tag related to the act of faith.  And that attack could be defended by discipline.

You can model the effect however you'd like and still end up with the same narrative, its just a question of nuts and bolts, (and of which move will most likely succeed.  Can he pay the FP to ignore the compel, can you overcome his stress track with the attack, will he think to drop a car on you to use his might to beat your block?  Its a meta-game strategy shell game by and large.)

PS, there are stunts that let you maneuver with conviction, could be one that lets you block, and Holy touch lets you pull these types of things off as well.  Just in case you don't feel the skill alone satisfies.

[MagusVulpes]

I love all the different arguments for this, that, and the other... It just reminds me how robust this system can be. I'm just sort of focused on the scene with Susan at the Vampire Ball where she's able to hold off the BCV but not the RCV, but then again, she was backed-up by Michael with the BCV and Harry did state that RCVs have a stronger hold on reality... So semantics all around more than likely.

Just trying to get some advice since I'm planning on running a game with closer to pure mortal characters. I'm thinking compels would work best, but still sorta feel like it should be a block... But it shouldn't bother things like a BCV throwing a piece of concrete at you, or firing a gun, since the stone and the bullet don't really care how much you think they shouldn't hurt you.

[Ricky]

Devout Words is a stunt on page 150 of Your Story, it allows you to use your conviction to make a block.

[Elkhorn]

In our campaign (shameless plug for Dresden Files-Dallas on Obsidian Portal, http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/dfd), I'm playing a faith character and was frustrated with the Devout Words stunt - for one thing, it's not particular to critters with a faith/holy weakness, and 2nd - it's a block, not a defense (so you have to "set it up" in advance of an attack, rather than being able to react to an attack, like you can with Athletics).

I batted this around with our GM, and this is a first draft of what we came up with to model "Faith as Defense."  Comments/feedback welcomed!

Shield of Faith (Conviction Trapping)

Against supernatural creatures that have a weakness/vulnerability to faith, Conviction can be used in conflict situations as a physical defense so long as the character is actively wielding a symbol of what they believe in (a traditional example would be a cross for Christians, but this can vary, as with Harry and his pentacle). If you have at least two True Faith powers, this trapping can also be used against creatures that have a weakness/vulnerability to holy.

Justification – loosely based on the “Devout Words” stunt. This is one of the earliest examples we see in the novels of the power of faith, straight from Harry Dresden’s encounter with Bianca in Storm Front. Further justification is in Grave Peril, where even Susan Rodriguez makes a cross work in this way against Mavra at Bianca’s party. Even though defense is more robust than block, 1) it only works on creatures vulnerable to “faith” and 2) it requires a “focus” of sorts. Based on those situational limitations, we think this is just an additional trapping rather than a full-cost stunt.