Item of Power: Utility Belt

[Gatts]

I was looking at the highly versatile custom power Incite Effect for a mildly superhuman character in a Superheroes game I'm in and he's been using his nano-technological skills to fill a batman style utility belt with various grenades and gizmos. After a couple of sessions though, I came up with the idea of using Incite Effect rather than dozens of craftsmanship and resources declarations.

Basically it would be
Item of Power: Utility Belt [+2]
-Feeding Dependency: Refills [+1]
--Incite Effect [-?]

The feeding dependency seems like a surprisingly elegant way to run out of grenades and such, or have devices run out of juice - though a stunt to move the hunger track to Resources might be in order. I'd use the optional rule to scale down powers with stress, so I could lose 'Incite Mass Effect' when I gain hunger stress from using area attacks.  The main worry I have is the last optional power: Incite Additional Effect. What exactly counts as an additional effect and is 'gadgets' much too broad?

Effects I had in mind: Flash-bang style zone manoeuvres, smoke bombs, electrical stun darts, mini high-explosive grenades. Other possibilities are things like miniature: cutting torches, grapnel hooks or gas masks.

Thanks in advance.

[13th~Nineteen]

Easier way would be to just give it modular abilities or just evocation.

[Gatts]

Well, considering it's a superhero game we get to avoid the various trappings of wizardry which are often more work than fun. As for modular powers, I'm not sure how I'd justify taking a turn to switch to smoke bombs. Besides, I'm not sure it's necessary. I'm fairly sure Incite Effect can handle it, I'm just not sure how broad it can be.

[Mr. Death]

I don't think Incite Effect really fits this. To me, for a utility belt, Ritual (Crafting) and a couple refinements seems a much better fit.

The limited uses of an enchanted item or potion would fit the "run out of grenades" concern, as would the possibility of just not having something on the belt.

Alternatively, just make him Pure Mortal, give him a belt with an Aspect like "Always the right Gadget," and have him spend a fate point to declare he has something as the case may be.

[Gatts]

I'm actually giving him a gadget based aspect to supplement those gadgets that aren't manoeuvres or attacks, but as I said I'd rather avoid magic.

[Mr. Death]

I'm actually giving him a gadget based aspect to supplement those gadgets that aren't manoeuvres or attacks, but as I said I'd rather avoid magic.

If you want to avoid magic and have it just be gadgets, like Batman, then yeah, my suggestion is just making him Pure Mortal so he has a bunch of fate points to throw out and say, "Good thing I've got my grappling hook!" when appropriate.

[Ghsdkgb]

You could always use the Thaumaturgy ruleset and modify it to fit the theme, all the while plugging your ears and going "it's not magic I swear it's not magic!"

That's how I adapt things all the time.

[Gatts]

'Magic' is not the only reason I don't want Thaumaturgy, I found it boring and questionably balanced. As for the fate points thing, I don't know I'd rather have something with more reliable effects.

[Centarion]

What do you mean by questionably balanced? Thaumaturgy has almost no explicit rules as far as power is concerned, so it is as powerful, or not, as you want.

In any case I have always found that utility belt type powers are best done via Enchanted Items, either via Ritual (crafting) + Refinement (note that no one will actually have to case any rituals, crafting is not really like any of the other Thaumaturgy schools) or via a custom power.

If you want to go with the custom power option I suggest Bag of Tricks from Sancta's list.

BAG OF TRICKS [-1]
Description: For whatever reason, you have access to a few minor magical trinkets.
Skills affected: Contacts, Resources, Burglary, Lore.
Effects:
Enchanted Items: You have four potions, each with a strength equal to your Contacts, Resources, Burglary, or Lore skill. You may not increase their strength in any way. At the beginning of each session, you must declare which potions you have on hand.
More Trinkets [-1]. You have four additional potions. Furthermore, you may choose to leave potion slots open to be filled later with Declarations.

[Gatts]

I'm sorry guys, I know you're trying to be helpful but could I have fewer replies suggesting magic? If people don't think Incite Effect would work, could they explain why?

Thanks.

[Centarion]

First of all, I do not think my reply suggested magic. I suggested you use the mechanics in the game for enchanted items, which are supposed to be fixed strength one use items, you can flavor them however you want and use whatever effects you think are appropriate. I suggested this because they model utility items very well (in my experience) and have a built in usage limitation. Using declarations and aspect invocations would also be good, but you said you wanted more mechanical crunch.

I think Incite Effect would be a bad fit here because the effects produced by utility belt items are too broad. Incite Effect is meant to allow you to use one skill to make changes in the world (or in someone's mind or whatever), if you allow one skill to use Grenade attacks, Grappling Hooks, Smoke Screens, and whatever else it is going to be too good. This skill becomes a replacement for stealth, movement, attacks, and pretty much anything else your player can think of. A good example of a Incite Effect would be the basic Incite Emotion (one emotion) powers from the book, or a power that lets you control shadows, or something similarly broad.


I also do not like using feeding dependency for the ammo type effect. Basically, you will never run out of anything mid fight (unless the GM tosses out a bunch of compels for Hunger Stress attacks mid combat, but it still likely wont make you loose anything). Also, refills are not difficult (presumably) nor morally objectionable to obtain. If you can just use your powers all fight, then tack hunger at the end of the fight, then clear it by going back to your base, that really isn't much of a downside. It also just feels wrong to have your ammo represented by a stress track and consequences (at least to me).

What is it you specifically do not like about enchanted items/potions? I understand why you may not want to work with thaumaturgy, it is complicated and requires a lot of GM handling in order to work and can get out of hand. But enchanted items will be fairly simple, they are (mostly) pre generated, do not take much time to use, and unless you let someone take tonnes of refinement for crafting foci they are pretty balanced.

For example a character with Bag of Tricks (Resources) and 5 resources skill could have Grenades (Weapon 3 zone attack, 3/day, 2 slots), Grappling Gun (5 shit athletics skill replacement to climb walls, 1/day), and Smoke Bomb (5 shift Stealth 1/day). If you wanted more uses/items/wanted to allow declarations to make them up on the fly you could use the upgrade (even multiple times). Keep in mind you as the GM can veto effects from items if you think they are out of line, just make certain you and your players have the same expectations for what is allowed.

I am sorry if I come off as pushing "magic" to you, if you don't want to use it that is fine, do whatever is the most fun. But in my experience the enchanted items rules work very well for this type of thing and are simple, strait forward, and balanced.   

[Sanctaphrax]

Basically it would be
Item of Power: Utility Belt [+2]
-Feeding Dependency: Refills [+1]
--Incite Effect [-?]

The feeding dependency seems like a surprisingly elegant way to run out of grenades and such, or have devices run out of juice - though a stunt to move the hunger track to Resources might be in order. I'd use the optional rule to scale down powers with stress, so I could lose 'Incite Mass Effect' when I gain hunger stress from using area attacks.  The main worry I have is the last optional power: Incite Additional Effect. What exactly counts as an additional effect and is 'gadgets' much too broad?

Effects I had in mind: Flash-bang style zone manoeuvres, smoke bombs, electrical stun darts, mini high-explosive grenades. Other possibilities are things like miniature: cutting torches, grapnel hooks or gas masks.

Incite Effect might or might not work depending on what you intend to do. You can toss out stun darts or explosives, no problem.

But grappling hooks and gas masks might be tricky. A "gas mask" block ought to last longer than an exchange, which Incite Effect blocks don't do.

And you can't move yourself with Incite Effect.

I suppose you could do everything with maneuvers, but that'd be pushing the limits of Incite Effect's versatility. I'd probably make you buy Additional Effect once.

Plus Feeding Dependency involves its own hassles.

It seems easier to use Bag Of Tricks or Ritual (Crafting), honestly...I can see why so many people are ignoring your actual question.

tl;dr: It could work, but you'll have to work to make it work.

What do you mean by questionably balanced? Thaumaturgy has almost no explicit rules as far as power is concerned, so it is as powerful, or not, as you want.

That's worth a thread on its own.

[Gatts]

Thank you very much for the helpful reply, I think you've got a point about incite effect. However part of the reason I want to avoid enchanted items is the same problem you have with Incite Effect: One skill just doing everything. My character has an effective Athletics of 6, so the enchanted item grappling gun would be entirely useless, as just one example.

I was comparing Feeding Dependency: Refills to Ghouls having to eat large quantities of raw meat. A character like mine with Resources 6 would if anything find massive quantities of raw meat easier to get hold of than the specific components for his utility belt.

I am considering Enchanted Items now though, though I think there's a little more book-keeping involved than a hunger stress track. My other option is to work out exactly what I want from the belt and make a couple of much narrower Incite Effects to cover what I need.

Edit: Yeah, in hindsight the grapnel, gas mask and probably cutting torch aren't really Incite Effect range. Is Incite Effect: Special Grenades too broad? I was thinking of narrowing it down to Grenades and something else, and the other bits in the belt would be from my Gadget aspect or declarations.

[Sanctaphrax]

Special Grenades doesn't seem too broad at all to me.

Feeding Dependency is not a very well-written Power. It's not clear when it makes you lose Powers, and it inexplicably allows you to recover all hunger stress if you get lucky on a hunger defence roll or if you go through a fight using only a few points of your Powers.

So I'd expect it to make more trouble than Incite Effect.

I have a rewrite, but it's not that great.

[Gatts]

I see what you mean. What are the problems with your rewrite? I'm looking at it now and while it seems complex it doesn't seem to have any of the issues of the RAW power. Do you think compels on the related aspect would be a simpler solution for 'running out'?