Author Topic: Magic Etch-a-Sketch complexity question  (Read 2839 times)

Offline MagusVulpes

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
Magic Etch-a-Sketch complexity question
« on: September 18, 2012, 05:12:34 AM »
So I'm playing a Geomancer (Earth magic not math) character and I'm looking to use Thaumaturgy to bind two Etch-a-Sketches together so that what is drawn on one, appears on the other. While this would be a simple enchanted item, I'd prefer it to be a spell similar to one of Harry's tracking spells, but I'll be honest, I don't really get how to set up Thau spells like this.

It seems like it should be a complexity of probably 4 or 5, and would probably have a time frame of "an afternoon" or "a day" since it's a spell meant to last a while, with a little extra oomph I can see it lasting a sunrise or two, but here's my question: "How would this be best represented mechanically? Should it be done as a Maneuver against the Etches, or should it be presumed to be a simple action?"

Being able to instantly communicate, especially silently, can be a major advantage, especially for a wizard/sorcerer who can't use a cell phone, so I'm looking for a fun, but balanced setup. Since this is my first real custom Thaumaturgic spell, I'm just trying to wrap my head around it.
If history is to change, let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If my fate is to die, I must simply laugh.
- Magus

Offline GryMor

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Etch-a-Sketch complexity question
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2012, 05:45:18 AM »
Thaumaturgical skill substitution: Resources at the level needed to get the equivalent mundane items plus duration.

http://www.evilhat.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/DFRPG-Spellcasting.102-Thaumaturgy.pdf
« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 05:50:18 AM by GryMor »

Offline Sanctaphrax

  • White Council
  • Seriously?
  • ****
  • Posts: 12405
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Etch-a-Sketch complexity question
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2012, 06:16:27 AM »
I'd say 5 for a day.

Resources replacement isn't the best guide for this sort of thing, since it lets you get an island with 8 shifts. And a nuclear bomb is probably doable with 12ish. Buying power increases roughly tenfold with each shift invested at higher levels.

So you basically just have to pick a number.

Offline GryMor

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Etch-a-Sketch complexity question
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2012, 03:47:42 PM »
The resource route is only useful for mundane things, and even then, at best it gets you an equivalent thing for a day. Thaumaturgy for an island for a day? If you consider buying an island to be mundane (keeping in mind you don't really get to choose the location, so we aren't talking about creating an island), binding a Nevernever pocket to be 'yours' for a day. Really, a nuke probably isn't mundane in this sense, short of 'buying' a country, the money isn't the primary obstacle to buying a nuke, and 'buying' a country is probably better executed as a conflict.

Offline Ghsdkgb

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1143
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Etch-a-Sketch complexity question
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2012, 04:39:14 PM »
Why not use a Magna-Doodle? I mean, seriously, have you ever TRIED writing on an Etch-A-Sketch?

Besides that, the iron filings of a Magna-Doodle better lend themselves to geomancy than the aluminum powder of an Etch-A-Sketch.
"I am responsible for more than my own fun."

Offline Sanctaphrax

  • White Council
  • Seriously?
  • ****
  • Posts: 12405
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Etch-a-Sketch complexity question
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2012, 03:44:57 AM »
Buying a private island is explicitly given as an example of mundane Resources in YS.

As for nukes, YS also recommends handling rarity and legality as difficulty increases on Resources rolls.

It's actually quite reasonable and pretty cool for Money McCashman to rustle up a nuke by spending a fistful of FP to get 12 shifts. But flattening a city with Thaumaturgy for 12 shifts is silly, because getting 12 shifts on Thaumaturgy is not that hard. Certainly not as hard as getting 12 shifts on Resources.

Also, it seems wrong for the difficulty of magic to depend on the local economy.

Offline MagusVulpes

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Etch-a-Sketch complexity question
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2012, 04:04:05 AM »
Why not use a Magna-Doodle? I mean, seriously, have you ever TRIED writing on an Etch-A-Sketch?

Besides that, the iron filings of a Magna-Doodle better lend themselves to geomancy than the aluminum powder of an Etch-A-Sketch.

I had considered magna-doodles as a variant version, having not really looked into the mechanics of either before I made the post, and yeah, that would make for a much better analogue, if only for the humor of me waving my hand and 'crafting' a perfectly written paragraph while my buddy with the other one writes like a child on it. Thanks for the fast replies too. It's greatly appreciated.
If history is to change, let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If my fate is to die, I must simply laugh.
- Magus

Offline Orladdin

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 514
  • The Undauntable
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Etch-a-Sketch complexity question
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2012, 03:45:25 PM »
What a clever idea.  I like it.
There is never a blanket answer to an ethical question.  This includes the Laws of Magic.

Perpetrator of The Cold Days Release FAQ

"I never make stupid mistakes. Only very, very clever ones."
-- The Doctor, Timewyrm: Genesys

Offline Rougarou

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 113
  • Just like Disneyland.
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Etch-a-Sketch complexity question
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2012, 09:20:43 AM »
First, I agree that skill replacement isn't always the best method of handling thaumaturgy difficulty. As stated, if you do a Resources replacement, a twelve shift ritual could likely get you a nuke, which is overpowered. On the other hand, if you wanted to do a thaumaturgy teleportation like spell and used an Athletics replacement, those same twelve shifts only moving you twelve zones seems underpowered... especially when you consider that wouldn't come close to letting you leave the blast area of the nuke that last fictitious ritual just summoned.

However, in this case, I don't think a skill replacement on Resources is that bad of a gauge. Consider what mundane items would be needed to accomplish the same thing, the drawing of a picture on one device that lets it appear on another device. Seems like a pair of electronic tablets with a 3G connections would fit the bill and you could probably buy two for between $500 and $1,000... putting the difficulty at Fair since a Fair Resources roll would let you buy anything under $1,000.

As I said though, that kind of thing doesn't always work. The big thing to ask yourself anytime you set a difficulty on something is, "Does that sound reasonable in terms of cost and benefits?" Here, it certainly sounds reasonable to me.. you're only putting in a Fair effort and in return you're getting something useful, but not amazing. It will allow the characters to communicate silently and effectively across a distance, but it's not going to win any encounter for them all on it's own. Plus, it requires planning ahead before it's actually used, which always makes a difference to me when I set difficulties (Wanna pick the lock on the exit door before the fight starts to make sure you have a quick way out? Burglary roll of two. Wanna do it while under fire and trying desperately to make an escape? Difficulty just went to five.)



"So you fought a hobo who tried to use a ritual to make himself a god?"
"We called him Hobosus."
"What?"
"Hobo plus Jesus. Hobosus."
- From a DFRPG campaign.

Offline MagusVulpes

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Etch-a-Sketch complexity question
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2012, 03:48:33 AM »
First, I agree that skill replacement isn't always the best method of handling thaumaturgy difficulty...

I keep seeing this sort of answer, but I'm unclear on where this rule set comes up. Is it in the books somewhere or is it a forum suggestion?
If history is to change, let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If my fate is to die, I must simply laugh.
- Magus

Offline GryMor

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Etch-a-Sketch complexity question
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2012, 06:31:23 AM »
I keep seeing this sort of answer, but I'm unclear on where this rule set comes up. Is it in the books somewhere or is it a forum suggestion?

It's in the book, it's one of the primary mechanics for Thaumaturgy (the other primary one being Conflict, aka, take something out to do something to it/with it). It boils down to doing some 'Hypothetically possible thing in an improbable timeframe and manner', like divination, conjuration or teleportation. The one that isn't in the book, exactly, but that you should also be aware of is 'grant powers for a duration', and thats simply 2 complexity per refresh (but it still follows the temporary power rules, so it costs the user a fate point per refresh of power per scene that it is relevant)