Newbie needs help with sponsored magic

[InFerrumVeritas]

Hi there, I'm the rule nut Kereo mentioned (I prefer the term power gamer).

My main problem with sponsored magic is the lack of power/control bonuses trough specializations and focus items, as well as the lack of enchanted item slots.

To illustrate my point: All hellfire does is give you one measly point of power/control when at the same refresh cost you could take evocation + refinement, resulting in up to 5 extra points of power/control.

Keep in mind though, this is coming from a combat oriented player so not much regard was given to taumaturgy.

You are ignoring the thaumaturgy.  Just because you don't care about doesn't mean the power doesn't give you the ability to do it.  You're right, Evocation+Refinement is better than sponsored magic for combat.  But it doesn't give you Thaumaturgy/Ritual, at all.

Sponsored Magic is actually a pretty good deal.  Ritual+Channeling doesn't give you the +1 bonus, thaumaturgy at evocation's methods and speed, or debt. 

Per RAW, none of the elements have the ability to do Psychomancy.  This would remove your mental attack thing.  Of course, sponsored magic could allow you to do this with evocation's methods and speed... Certainly Lawbreaking, though.

Cage of Nightmares doesn't work, per RAW.  It's not a maneuver, and you can't have an effect triggered by your opponent's success.  That is, you can't say "Oh, he beat my block and can move now, so that means he gets hurt!"  You don't get a benefit for failing.  We've discussed ways to make it work, however.

You could always take Evocation and Sponsored Magic.  This would cost the same as Evocation and Thaumaturgy, allow you to specialize, give you some ritual, some thaum at evo's methods and speed, and a small bonus.  Granted, this isn't "super powerful," but if you're going to Power Game, that means you have to follow the rules even when they DON'T benefit you.

[Taran]

Our group always assumed you could have focus item slots with sponsored magic.

On pg. 287 it says,

"In practice, this is essentially equivalent to
taking the Channeling and Ritual abilities priced
at 2 refresh apiece, with the sponsored source
of power replacing the usual specialized focus"

And both Channeling and Ritual get Focus Item slots.  Also, I don't think it ever states anywhere that you DON'T get the item slots.

There's probably been discussion about this before...have I misread this?

[InFerrumVeritas]

Our group always assumed you could have focus item slots with sponsored magic.

On pg. 287 it says,

"In practice, this is essentially equivalent to
taking the Channeling and Ritual abilities priced
at 2 refresh apiece, with the sponsored source
of power replacing the usual specialized focus"

And both Channeling and Ritual get Focus Item slots.  Also, I don't think it ever states anywhere that you DON'T get the item slots.

There's probably been discussion about this before...have I misread this?

Oh, I missed that in Rolf's last post.  You absolutely get focus items.  YS183. 

"Notes: The cost of Sponsored Magic changes depending on whether or not you already have Evocation or Thaumaturgy. This also affects whether or not Sponsored Magic gives you any additional focus item slots. If you’re paying full price, you get four focus item slots with this ability. If you have either Evocation or Thaumaturgy, thus reducing the cost of Sponsored Magic, you only get two additional focus item slots. If you have both, reducing the cost more, you don’t get any additional focus item slots."

[JDK002]

Beat me to it.  Was going to say I swore if you didn't already have channeling/ritual you get all the benifits of them with sponsored magic.  Basically getting evothaum and sponsor debt for free.

Of course the trade off is your magic has to fit the sponsor theme and you can (and will) get regularly compelled by said sponsor.

[Rolf_Soldaat]

Ah, I wasn't aware of that. In this case, my original complaints are pretty much unfounded.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Tedronai]

Keep in mind though, this is coming from a combat oriented player so not much regard was given to taumaturgy.

Yes, an evaluation of a Power that ignores well over half of what that Power does is bound to find it lacking.

[JDK002]

Yes, an evaluation of a Power that ignores well over half of what that Power does is bound to find it lacking.

to be fair most RPGs kind of force the combat orientation down the players throat so that's how most players think. 

That's why I like this system so much.  Yu can make a character that has zero use in combat but can talk their way out of almost anything.  Or a character that is pure thaumaturgy who can create a whole lot of narrative shortcuts for the players or pull of some tremendous spells with effects that would make combat focused wizards envious.

[kereo]

Thanks everyone, for your input!

We're working on statting it out now.

-Kereo