Daily Recommended Allowance for Dialogue in First Person Narratives.

[Paynesgrey]

I understand the importance of dialogue in a story, it's what hooks us to characters and how they react to things, it's a great tool for showing rather than telling (so long as the character isn't become a funnel for an infodump), etc. 

I'm writing a story from the first person though, and I'm wondering about balancing the amount of dialogue with the narration, as that is itself a form of dialogue.  Like how much, if any, slack does 1st person take up from inter-character dialogue? 

At what point does one say "You don't really need to detail the conversation with the checkout clerk regarding the shopper's value card"? 

That sort of thing.  I've found myself going back and injecting dialogue into places where I'd written something like "I told so-and-so to go and blahblahblah", usually when it was an area of text that just felt kind of flat and barren.  (My character uses a slight, but easily understandable dialect and a frankly Whedonesque sort of wordplay, and I keep invented slang terms to things readily understandable because of the context.  That can spice up simple descriptions and scenes, but I don't want to use as a crutch or substitute for entertaining or useful conversations.

I'd like to hear people's viewpoints.  General rules of thumb you might prefer, should any exist, good examples to keep in mind, etc.  The most obvious "good example" would be the Dresdenverse, but I don't want to just ape Jim's style, or accidentally craft something that's going to be limited to people who like the same things about it that I do. 

So I'm looking for food for thought.

Feed, me, Seymour. 

[Lany79]

I think you write about the stuff that is important to the plot or subplot of the story you want to tell. The ancillary stuff, the little things are the ones you probably want to gloss over. Unless there is the occasional fun little bit you want to add in.

[Lanodantheon]

The desire for Whedonesque and Tarentinoesque banter is perfectly understandable. If you want a test for whether or not a bit or a bunch of Dialogue is necessary, answer these 3 questions:


1. What is the purpose of this dialogue? Does the Dialogue move the story forward in a significant way?


2. If this dialogue wasn't here, would the scene still work?


3. Does this dialogue relate to something else that happens in the story later or earlier? Does the subject of the dialogue ever come up again?


That's my $0.02

[The Deposed King]

The desire for Whedonesque and Tarentinoesque banter is perfectly understandable. If you want a test for whether or not a bit or a bunch of Dialogue is necessary, answer these 3 questions:


1. What is the purpose of this dialogue? Does the Dialogue move the story forward in a significant way?


2. If this dialogue wasn't here, would the scene still work?


3. Does this dialogue relate to something else that happens in the story later or earlier? Does the subject of the dialogue ever come up again?


That's my $0.02

If you've done it once, for instance a full on meeting of the command crew.  with accompanying dialogue, then you don't have to do every command meeting in all its gore detail.

Also sometimes dialogue and conversations that you think aren't important, others do.  Your Beta's should be able to help you out there.  I know my brother did for me.  Rule of thumb, count how many paragraphs of inner monologue/narration you are doing between dialogue.  If you are going 3 or more paragraphs, you need to take a hard look at it and make sure it wouldn't be better off either broken up or converted into dialogue.

For what its worth....



always follow the dream,


The Deposed King

[Shecky]

From what I've seen in well-written stories, the dividing line is defined by a couple of things:

1) Is what was said not more important than how it was said?
2) Are real-time actions/reactions important to later developments? (Honestly, this can go both ways, unless the actual words used by characters turn out to be important later, and even that can be handled with a summary that includes quasi-excerpts of the dialogue.)
3) Which way will have the greatest impact on the reader? (If it's simple information-gathering, a summary is fine, but if there are bombs dropped, especially in an attention-getting, dramatic fashion, the blow-by-blow dialogue works.)

Basically, it seems to boil down to a question of the unusual/significant/story-advancing, with a side dish of setting up the reader (subtly or less so) for later developments.

[The Deposed King]

From what I've seen in well-written stories, the dividing line is defined by a couple of things:

1) Is what was said not more important than how it was said?
2) Are real-time actions/reactions important to later developments? (Honestly, this can go both ways, unless the actual words used by characters turn out to be important later, and even that can be handled with a summary that includes quasi-excerpts of the dialogue.)
3) Which way will have the greatest impact on the reader? (If it's simple information-gathering, a summary is fine, but if there are bombs dropped, especially in an attention-getting, dramatic fashion, the blow-by-blow dialogue works.)

Basically, it seems to boil down to a question of the unusual/significant/story-advancing, with a side dish of setting up the reader (subtly or less so) for later developments.

Right.  I guess in my previous post I didn't clarify.  Dialogue or action, either works, and by action it doesn't have to be combat, but moving the pieces in a dramatic or soon to be dramatic fashion.

I was thinking more, we went through hyperspace and hit something, everyone was concerned and the helmsman screamed, while the first officer proceeded to investigate the situation, versus as the ship drove through hyperspace, there was a thud.  'what the hades!' screamed the Helmsman grabbing the controls and holding on for dear life.  A moment later he looked around sheepishly as the ship failed to implode.  'Report," snapped the First Officer.  "Nothing on Sensors, sir!' and so on and so forth.

Too much of the first and you need to insert some action or dialogue.  That's kind of where I was coming up with my 3 paragraph thumb note.


always follow the dream,


The Deposed King

[OZ]

I usually go with the idea that if you're not sure whether it's too much, go ahead and include it in the rough draft. When the first draft is finished and you're rewriting you should have a better idea of whether it's needed or not. If it's not then trim it down or eliminate it altogether. Sometimes it's hard to tell whether it's too much if you haven't finished the story yet.

[The Deposed King]

I usually go with the idea that if you're not sure whether it's too much, go ahead and include it in the rough draft. When the first draft is finished and you're rewriting you should have a better idea of whether it's needed or not. If it's not then trim it down or eliminate it altogether. Sometimes it's hard to tell whether it's too much if you haven't finished the story yet.

Very true.


The Deposed King

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

From what I've seen in well-written stories, the dividing line is defined by a couple of things:
1) Is what was said not more important than how it was said?

To my mind, every time anybody says anything, it's an opportunity for characterisation. 

Quoting dialogue verbatim is a characterisation opportunity for all the characters talking.  Reporting dialogue can be an opportunity for characterisation of your narrator, and also of how your narrator sees the other characters, but they are somewhat different things - Fred the narrator saying "George delivered his usual idiotic rant about the dangers of hyperspace" doesn't tell the reader whether George actually is an idiot or whether Fred just doesn't like him and is being unfairly dismissive.

For me it's usually possible to work out which bits want to be narrative and which dialogue by a combination of three things; what additional information can be conveyed each way, as indicated above; what you want your pacing to be like at the time - sometimes a summary moves faster, sometimes you want to use the conversation itself for precision timing, sometimes you want a reflective breather after an action sequence - and the general principle that the more things a scene can do the better the book will be.

(Realising what I want the pacing to be like at the time often does not show up clearly until I am reading through a complete draft, though.  There's only so well you can judge how chapter 7 works for flow and pacing when all you have written is chapters 1 to 8, and some of that could read quite differently when you have all 36 chapters done.)

[meg_evonne]

I'd say whatever feels right as you read it out loud.

Here's a cool way to track it though.  Take your manuscript and high light all dialog one color. Then using another color highlight your narrative. Personally, I'd also highlight another color on action and high tension scenes because they help break up the flow considerably.

Then shrink your manuscript down, down, down. You'll get a visual check of what is what and how much each is. If you see tons of one color, better break it up. You might not have as much dialog as you think or you haven't spread it out.

This technique has proven invaluable for me. Let me know if you give it a try and what you find out by doing so.

[Aminar]

I'd say whatever feels right as you read it out loud.

Here's a cool way to track it though.  Take your manuscript and high light all dialog one color. Then using another color highlight your narrative. Personally, I'd also highlight another color on action and high tension scenes because they help break up the flow considerably.

Then shrink your manuscript down, down, down. You'll get a visual check of what is what and how much each is. If you see tons of one color, better break it up. You might not have as much dialog as you think or you haven't spread it out.

This technique has proven invaluable for me. Let me know if you give it a try and what you find out by doing so.

I can see that being great, but man that is a ton of work... 

[Paynesgrey]

Just do a search for quotation marks.  That'll cut the finding your dialogue way down at least.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

I'd say whatever feels right as you read it out loud.

Presuming your dialogue's actually spoken; if the bulk of it is in email or chat clients, the rhythms might be slightly different.  (This is one of the technical contexts in which Homestuck fascinates me, for example.)

[meg_evonne]

What you can learn from the shrunken manuscript is invaluable. I can't tell you how the visualization solved some flow and edit problems in past works. The color highlighting doesn't lie. You can't get wrapped up in your 'feeling' on what's happening to actually seeing it in technicolor.