Shadow People

[eiredrake]

I had briefly discussed this in a separate post (The Glass Jawed Wizard) but I wanted to run it by the forum to see what everyone thought and to help balance things out a bit so these things aren't overwhelmingly powerful or seriously weak. I'm looking for something that will be a party wide challenge, that is also a creature a Wizard can't sneeze on and kill. I figured I would jot down my notes thus far.



First, a bit of background. Shadow people are essentially a supernatural creature people claim to have seen all over western culture. There is quite a bit of folklore surrounding them. They are generally seen only at night and in poor lighting. They are generally humanoid in shape, sometimes entirely black and sometimes with luminescent eyes. Typically they do not talk or directly interact with people or animals but merely watch mortals. I've woken up in the middle of the night with humanoid shadowy shapes standing over me but I've never been convinced that they are anything other than me still dreaming. However they do tend to scare the living crap out of me up until my mind realizes that it is awake and the things disappear. In the real world, the assumption is generally that they don't exist at all and are merely figments of the imagination though some people claim they are demons or aliens. Some people claim to have been attacked or even raped by these things, generally during an episode of sleep paralysis so that they cannot move. There are also stories (as in the second picture) of them travelling in large packs.

In my game, these creatures are non-corporeal beings that are in the direct service of the Outer Powers who are steadily gaining influence in the world because of the events in Changes and Ghost story. The Shadow People have always been here, but with the power vacuum left by the destruction of the red court, and the massive amounts of magic that were flung around during the war the Shadows find it easier to enter our world. In order to seize said power, some foolish entity (perhaps mortal, perhaps wizard, perhaps other) has decided to reach out to these creatures and the powers that they serve. (I won't go into exact details since therein lies my plotline).

I also thought that in the cases of possession, the Victim would appear relatively normal but would have eyes that were completely black and would seem to radiate faint wifts black steam a bit like the way really cold ice does in your freezer. I thought that'd be a really creepy description in the making.

In any case, here is what I have so far:
Servitors of Those Who Dwell Beyond - aka: Shadow People

• Shadow people are both manifestations of the Will of the Outsiders and their servitors.
• Like Demons, they can possess mortals, but unlike demons they cannot create bodies of pure ectoplasm
• Lesser Shadow People do not have True Names. Greater Shadow People do, and can be called forth just like a Demon. Just like demons it tends to piss them off.
• Running water has no effect on Servitors.
• However, bright sources of light effects them much like Running water effects a demon
• They are blocked by Circles and by Wards.
• They are not blocked by Thresholds unless there is also light present (these things show up in people's bedrooms all the time supposedly).
• Servitors feed off the life energy of mortals
• They are essentially immune to magic much like an Ogre however direct magical attacks actually make them stronger
• Cannot operator or manifest during the day unless it is in an area protected from sunlight or other bright sources of light
• Cannot talk on their own. However they can speak if possessing a host
• When possessing a host, they do not gain any skills or magical abilities of the host but they can make use of any physical abilities
• It is not known if you can actually kill one of these things or if they just disappear back to the Outside only to reappear later
• Because they are semi-corporeal, they cannot be hurt by normal weapons that are not driven by a Will. Example - a bullet would pass harmlessly through them. A club wielded with the intent to hurt them would do damage
• While they are blocked by solid physical matter, they are capable of flowing through cracks and holes to enter structures not otherwise warded

With those things in mind, I worked up the following stat block for a Lesser Servitor based on the stats of several different denizens in Our World (Bucky and the Ogre to name two):

High Concept: Servitor of Those Who Dwell Beyond
Other Aspects

• From Beyond the Outer Gates
• A Creature of shadow, hatred and hunger

Skills
Fists (Fair +2)
Intimidation (Average +1)
Stealth (Great +4)
Alertness (Fair +2)

Powers
Shadow Tendrils [-1] : (as per Claws)
I can Smell your Life (Supernatural Sense [-1] : Is able to sense life as if by smell)
Made of Shadow [-1] : (Cloak of Shadows)
Your Magic Tastes Most Sweet [-2] : Direct magical attacks give it power, and heal stress
Semi-Corporeal Form [-3] : Cannot pass through walls but can pass through cracks and holes much like a gas would. Does not need to manifest in order to attack. Immune to physical attacks not backed by Will. (ie: bullets won't hurt it, but a wielded club would).
The Catch [?] - Strong light sources weaken the Servitors. It is vulnerable to holy objects and faith.

So,  that's what I thought of but I'm worried that this might be a bit too powerful. Also, what is 'strong' light sources. A match, lighter, or old school incandescent flashlight, probably isn't going to do much. A modern, bright LED flashlight or car headlights would hurt it. A torch or lantern would probably keep it at bay for a while.

I thought about giving the thing some sort of Shadow walk style ability but I wasn't sure how to fit that into the existing rules and I'm pretty sure that would make it too damn powerful. Perhaps with the Greater Servitors, they can have something like that. I figure there would probably be one or two Greater servitors per twenty to fifty of the lesser ones infecting the city. The group I'm playing with is at the Chest Deep Level with quite a few games under their belts though with poor command (thus far) over the rules.

So here is when I open myself up to the flames. What do you think? How can I scale it up and down? What about the weaknesses? Is it too weak or too powerful?

Thanks in advance and please be gentle.

Eire

[UmbraLux]

It's probably too weak.  Particularly if you want it to challenge wizards.  It would also be more correct to add Physical Immunity with the catches of 'Will' and possibly 'Light' - that's what you've added behind "Semi-Incorporeal".  May also need to clarify the magic eating power. 

But the real issue I see is simply that wizards are probably your most effective opponents - they generally have 'will' (Conviction) as one of their top three skills.  Though I may be misunderstanding what you mean by "backed by will".  (Do you mean a melee attack using Conviction or something else?)

In any case, if you want one creature to challenge a group you typically need at least twice the refresh of an individual group member and more likely three to four times the refresh.  (Unless doing odd things with multiple damage tracks and / or multiple actions - but then it's functionally more than one creature.) 

To put it in perspective, I once threw a ~23 refresh wizard at a group of four 8 refresh PCs - the group took him to concession in one exchange.  The action economy is important. 

Sending multiple shadow people may still be a challenge - are you targeting one or more?

Going back to your stat block, I'd give them a decent damage dealing skill and / or stunt.  Fists 2 and Claws isn't going to do much.  If you're going for one shadow vs the group of PCs, I'd also give it a power/stunt oriented towards attacking a zone.  It also needs Conviction / Endurance - else all it's stress tracks are two boxes long.  A two box physical track is ok if they're largely immune to physical damage but not if anyone can take a swing.  You could also reflavor Worldwalker as your Shadow Walk. 

[Mindflayer94]

There isn't much to go on for you description of Your Magic Tastes Most Sweet from your description (rules wise that is), what I'd do is give them an aspect (probably called Your Magic Tastes Most Sweet) and then a custom power that says when they are contacted by a spell, they get a free tag on the aspect. Then, if one wants to heal, invoke for effect. Alternatively, one could tie Feeding Dependency, tied to magic, to one of the regeneration powers. To do this I'd say that they'd need to be exposed to a spell of a number of shifts equal to the refresh cost of the power activated to avoid hunger stress.

The catch as described looks to me as +3

As for shadow walk I'd stat it as a discipline attack vs. the border value to be overcome. This would of course require them to gain a discipline score, but it seems off to me that they don't have one already (besides the default to mediocre). Assuming you want a short range teleport, otherwise you could just go with worldwalker.

Something seems off to me about semi-corporeal form, but I can't put my finger on it.

[Sanctaphrax]

Your Magic Tastes Sweet needs more rules.

That aside, these are really weak. I could probably kill one in real life, and I'm below Feet In The Water level.

PS: Why don't bullets carry will? How are they different from melee weapons?

[JDK002]

Your Magic Tastes Sweet needs more rules.

That aside, these are really weak. I could probably kill one in real life, and I'm below Feet In The Water level.

PS: Why don't bullets carry will? How are they different from melee weapons?

I'm not 100% sure on this but the whole "bullets don't carry will" may have been covered in the books in a fashion. 

Something about how a bullet fired from a gun won't break a magic circle because there is no effort of will in firing a gun.  You pull a trigger and things get hurt.

[admiralducksauce]

What about a chainsaw? You're swinging it, but the teeth themselves are mechanical.

Trust me, it's not as much of an edge case as you might think.

[amberpup]

I would add 'Pack Instincts' (-1), 'Possession'( -1), and explain their feeding ability on the power list to be legit.

And while I'm ok with Wards having no effect on them (since they just eat the magic), its a major jump not to have Circles or Thresholds affect them. This is some major mojo and would need something just as restricting to balance it out. Of course, you could give how much light a room/house/street has as some sort of Threshold instead.

Glow sticks anyone?

But Circles, I would keep that rule intact.

As to their Catch, I would say you need to rethink that one. Its asking for a headache when your players start asking questions to what qualified. Not a gun, but how about a shark bang-stick, or someone driving a car to run one down. What about dropping a building on them using magic to bring it down?

As for magic healing them.... I think you may wish to redo this, since after the first exchange when the group wizards see that their magic isn't having a affect (with or without a Lore roll), there likely won't be a second or third spell (once the melee damage starts kicking in).

As for claws, I would add a venomous effect that allows them to 'poison' one's shadow and take control of it. Maybe that is how these creatures make the lesser form minions, plus you could get that zombie invasion type feel in the game. A mass of lesser shadows folks hunting the group down.

These guys kinda remind me of the 'Hounds of Tindalos' in CoC.

[Aminar]

It could be alot of fun to tie this to a darker version of Peter Pan(akin to The Child Thief by Brom)

As for powers.

You could boost them with speed powers, regeneration powers, or even some form of Modular Powers akin to how you might stat out Nicodemus's shadow.

[eiredrake]

These guys kinda remind me of the 'Hounds of Tindalos' in CoC.

Yeah a bit... though physically they look more like Nightgaunts.  Given that the Outsiders are basically Lovecraftian horrors as far as I can tell (I think they said that in the book somewhere actually), it would seem to fit. I'm trying to find a decent enough balance. I don't want them to destroy the party but I don't want them to be push overs either.

[eiredrake]

What about a chainsaw? You're swinging it, but the teeth themselves are mechanical.

Trust me, it's not as much of an edge case as you might think.

Based on my original idea a chainsaw would work. So would running them down with a car. (It's sort of a hold over from Shadowrun v3 wherein spirits can be effected by melee weapons because they are extensions of the Will and you are effectively attacking them with your Willpower stat as strength....but were immune to firearms, explosions and projectiles because they were not). Dropping a building on them wouldn't have any effect even if that was your intent. Once the object leaves your touch it is no longer powered by your Will.

I suppose the question would be how to word that so it makes sense in the game structure.

[amberpup]

How about a taser? The barbs are still connected with wires to the gun. No doubt someone would ask sooner or later. Or even a Warden's sword...

But if it was me, I would want to get the 'creep' down for them first. Then figure out what I want to do with them in the game. That's because I like to plan out scenes like mini-movies in my head, even if 90% of the time I get wrong what the players do. But if you get the 'fear factor' in correctly, it won't matter to your players if the creatures are just there to speedbump the wizards.

But one downside to this is, you need to have a group that does have some decent melee ability. In the three groups I'm seen, its pretty uncommon to see anyone but one or two people to have a good or better skillwise. So instead of just sidelining the wizard(s), you could get the whole group. Which could end pretty bad, if the dice turn.

[eiredrake]

How about a taser? The barbs are still connected with wires to the gun. No doubt someone would ask sooner or later. Or even a Warden's sword...

But if it was me, I would want to get the 'creep' down for them first. Then figure out what I want to do with them in the game. That's because I like to plan out scenes like mini-movies in my head, even if 90% of the time I get wrong what the players do. But if you get the 'fear factor' in correctly, it won't matter to your players if the creatures are just there to speedbump the wizards.

But one downside to this is, you need to have a group that does have some decent melee ability. In the three groups I'm seen, its pretty uncommon to see anyone but one or two people to have a good or better skillwise. So instead of just sidelining the wizard(s), you could get the whole group. Which could end pretty bad, if the dice turn.

I would say a taser would work, though I doubt the PC's would be able to successfully use one in the Wizard's presence.

A Warden's sword would definitely work though any sword would. When we last played we were post Chichen Itza so Luccio is firmly in her cute little college girl body and no more swords are being made.

As far as melee, my PC that I was playing in the game before the current GM tags out was the Melee guy in the game (him being based on Ezio Auditore except immortal). However he has been teaching the wizard and one of the other members how to hold their own in a fight. We also have a Valkyrie in the group so I think they have melee covered. Alejandro (my PC) will have a convenient excuse to be out of town while I am GMing - he goes where his Goddess tells him to go.

After talking about this on the forum I'm starting to wonder if they're not too weak now.

The creep factor will build slowly over time. Since we're post red court nastiness, there will be a general malaise and fear about town. There have already been disappearances and such and the Paranet is abuzz. It'll start on there. People seeing things out of the corners of their eyes or standing over them in their beds at night (which being behind their threshold should really scare people). Then someone will post videos of the things being seen on camera (I actually have a pretty nice video that people claim is a Shadow person... but i can tell it's just a bug on a security camera).

At first, the Servitors will only be seen one at a time. But as mentioned they tend to attack in packs. (Like that one picture I posted). So even if they are individually weak, if twenty of them attack you it should be a big deal.

Then there will be a series of semi-ritualistic gruesome killings in the city (we are using Philly), which the cop in the group will be working on. Her partner lost his sh*t about eight months ago and dropped off the grid so she's working the case alone until Philly PD gets her a new partner. She'll go to the other PCs for help. The players will presumably work out what the pattern is between the murders and realize that someone's doing something naughty. The Wizard PC in question is a Warden so he has a vested interest in stopping it. I will have to create reasons to drag in the other players, though they'll be along to help the Wizard anyway it's nice to give them a more personal stake.

I've got a few creepy scenes that I've gotten from my nightmares over the years that I can use to build up the tension.

Plus as a GM the most fun I have is working on props. I'm actually creating fake autopsy reports for the game. I used to run LARPS back in the mid to late 90's and that part was always the most fun for me. I wish I still had my 'Big Bad Book of Evil' prop. I'd love to be able to reuse it.

I also have this idea in my head about them cornering one of the Big Bad's minions. The minion manages to escape but they manage to rip a page out of a book that he or she is holding. It looks blank but when you do X, Y and Z to it, it reveals part of the spell/scheme they are working. Kinda got that idea from an episode of Alias (Rambaldi book page 47).

Best part is one of the players has Cassandra's Tears, which is a lot of fun to screw with. Unfortunately the only person in the group that ever believes her (Alejandro, he serves a Grecian goddess after all), will be out of town.

My only problem thus far is figuring out how to make the Servitors neither too weak nor too strong. I want the PC's fearing for their lives at this potential threat. But I don't want the game to end prematurely because of a TPK.

and that's kinda where I'm stuck.

[admiralducksauce]

I don't want the game to end prematurely because of a TPK.

Remember that the results of a Taken Out are what the victor (ie, YOU) dictate. The PCs only get killed when you say they do.

Play tough, hit 'em hard, and leave the choice to Concede or fight on to your players.

[amberpup]

You need some to be mooks, so you got disposable pawns to give-up to get the group in deeper. So weak, isn't always bad... since you could use pack tactics and stunts to even it out a bit.


And as I learned on another thread, DFRPG is alot like a soap on tv... no one is dead till they're written out in the script.

You ain't dead till the GM says you're dead, so a total team kill might only be everyone knocked out on the floor with the attackers fleeing for whatever reason.

[eiredrake]

How about a taser? The barbs are still connected with wires to the gun. No doubt someone would ask sooner or later. Or even a Warden's sword...

But if it was me, I would want to get the 'creep' down for them first. Then figure out what I want to do with them in the game. That's because I like to plan out scenes like mini-movies in my head, even if 90% of the time I get wrong what the players do. But if you get the 'fear factor' in correctly, it won't matter to your players if the creatures are just there to speedbump the wizards.

But one downside to this is, you need to have a group that does have some decent melee ability. In the three groups I'm seen, its pretty uncommon to see anyone but one or two people to have a good or better skillwise. So instead of just sidelining the wizard(s), you could get the whole group. Which could end pretty bad, if the dice turn.

I would say a taser would work, though I doubt the PC's would be able to successfully use one in the Wizard's presence.

A Warden's sword would definitely work though any sword would. When we last played we were post Chichen Itza so Luccio is firmly in her cute little college girl body and no more swords are being made.

As far as melee, my PC that I was playing in the game before the current GM tags out was the Melee guy in the game (him being based on Ezio Auditore except immortal). However he has been teaching the wizard and one of the other members how to hold their own in a fight. We also have a Valkyrie in the group so I think they have melee covered. Alejandro (my PC) will have a convenient excuse to be out of town while I am GMing - he goes where his Goddess tells him to go.

After talking about this on the forum I'm starting to wonder if they're not too weak now.

The creep factor will build slowly over time. Since we're post red court nastiness, there will be a general malaise and fear about town. There have already been disappearances and such and the Paranet is abuzz. It'll start on there. People seeing things out of the corners of their eyes or standing over them in their beds at night (which being behind their threshold should really scare people). Then someone will post videos of the things being seen on camera (I actually have a pretty nice video that people claim is a Shadow person... but i can tell it's just a bug on a security camera).

At first, the Servitors will only be seen one at a time. But as mentioned they tend to attack in packs. (Like that one picture I posted). So even if they are individually weak, if twenty of them attack you it should be a big deal.

Then there will be a series of semi-ritualistic gruesome killings in the city (we are using Philly), which the cop in the group will be working on. Her partner lost his sh*t about eight months ago and dropped off the grid so she's working the case alone until Philly PD gets her a new partner. She'll go to the other PCs for help. The players will presumably work out what the pattern is between the murders and realize that someone's doing something naughty. The Wizard PC in question is a Warden so he has a vested interest in stopping it. I will have to create reasons to drag in the other players, though they'll be along to help the Wizard anyway it's nice to give them a more personal stake.

I've got a few creepy scenes that I've gotten from my nightmares over the years that I can use to build up the tension.

Plus as a GM the most fun I have is working on props. I'm actually creating fake autopsy reports for the game. I used to run LARPS back in the mid to late 90's and that part was always the most fun for me. I wish I still had my 'Big Bad Book of Evil' prop. I'd love to be able to reuse it.

I also have this idea in my head about them cornering one of the Big Bad's minions. The minion manages to escape but they manage to rip a page out of a book that he or she is holding. It looks blank but when you do X, Y and Z to it, it reveals part of the spell/scheme they are working. Kinda got that idea from an episode of Alias (Rambaldi book page 47).

Best part is one of the players has Cassandra's Tears, which is a lot of fun to screw with. Unfortunately the only person in the group that ever believes her (Alejandro, he serves a Grecian goddess after all), will be out of town.

My only problem thus far is figuring out how to make the Servitors neither too weak nor too strong. I want the PC's fearing for their lives at this potential threat. But I don't want the game to end prematurely because of a TPK.

and that's kinda where I'm stuck.