Author Topic: Stationary Foci  (Read 3038 times)

Offline KOFFEYKID

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Stationary Foci
« on: August 06, 2012, 07:41:00 PM »
Im just wondering what type of bonuses one might get for making their focus a stationary object. Something that cant reasonably be moved from one spot to another.

Little Chicago would be an example.
A silver binding circle would be another.

(Im not looking for a bonus so much as looking for a good reason to fulfill the trope of a Scrying Pool for a Divination specialist I'm working on. I'm just not seeing much purpose to these types of things when a mobile version seems just as good.)

Offline Tedronai

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Re: Stationary Foci
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2012, 08:04:26 PM »
By RAW, of course, the best you're likely going to get is a reasonably easy Declaration, but I wouldn't object to a houserule that gave such things a single 1-point bonus, putting them on par with single-spell foci.
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Offline GryMor

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Re: Stationary Foci
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2012, 08:24:23 PM »
The main mechanical reason to do stationary foci are the extra quick and easy declarations it regularly allows for. This is mostly useful for summoning foci, crafting foci (potions!) and scrying foci.

Offline Haru

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Re: Stationary Foci
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2012, 08:28:45 PM »
Well, the book has a guideline for the size of focus items (YS281). Putting 5-6 focus item slots on an item results in a focus item the size of a staff or a basketball. Adding more will result in something too large to carry around with you. That would definitely fit little chicago.

You could houserule a flaw system for foci, kind of like "Human form" or "Item of power" for characters. Those things could be "fragile" (as in easy for an enemy to destroy), "unreliable" (roll a fate dice, + it works, 0 it does not work, - it reduces the roll instead of increasing it), "stationary" (as above, too big to carry), and so forth. You will get a refund on your invested focus item slots, though an item costs at least one focus item slot and the bonus total can not exceed your lore.

Example: A blasting rod (+3 fire control) costs 3 focus item slots. An unreliable blasting rod (+3 fire control) would only cost 1 focus item slot, since unreliable is a pretty heavy flaw, in my eyes. An unreliable blasting rod (+2 fire control) would still cost 1 focus item slot.

Now with a lore of 3, that blasting rod would be valid focus item. If you made it an unreliable blasting rod (+4 fire power), it would cost 2 focus item slots, but since the bonus of 4 is higher than the characters lore, he can not make such an item.

If you like the idea, I'll gladly gather up a list of focus item drawbacks.
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Offline UmbraLux

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Re: Stationary Foci
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2012, 10:07:47 PM »
(Im not looking for a bonus so much as looking for a good reason to fulfill the trope of a Scrying Pool for a Divination specialist I'm working on. I'm just not seeing much purpose to these types of things when a mobile version seems just as good.)
Well, assuming Lore 5 and plenty of refinement slots, you could create a Reflecting Pool with +3 Complexity and +2 Control to Divination and Wards (or whatever).  This ends up taking 10 foci slots and requires something approximately the size of 100 basketballs.  (Rough extrapolation of how the size table increases every two focus slots.)

Basically, you'll need such large items when you apply bonuses to multiple categories - or when your Lore is abnormally high.
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Offline Tedronai

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Re: Stationary Foci
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2012, 08:07:39 AM »
The main mechanical reason to do stationary foci are the extra quick and easy declarations it regularly allows for. This is mostly useful for summoning foci, crafting foci (potions!) and scrying foci.

Unfortunately, Declarations last as long as the Truth they represent reasonably would, so 'regularly' making Declarations on the same subject actually become prohibitively difficult.  Not to mention somewhat silly.
The aspect will still be there, and you will still be able to pour your FPs into it over prolonged use, but you'll only get the tag that first time.
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Offline InFerrumVeritas

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Re: Stationary Foci
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2012, 01:57:03 PM »
For situations where a Foci for one big spell is used, I prefer the idea of enchanted items.  Example:

I create a 3 shift summoning ring "potion" (I'm using the potion rules to represent a single use, temporary magic item that can be declared for a fate point or with an applicable Lore roll).  Placing the aspect "Demon Bait."  I have +2 bonus which I may use in the summoning ritual for virtually any part of the ritual. 

I create another summoning ring "potion," this time placing the aspect "Magical Containment Field" for another +2.

In this case, because I can only use them once, and only for a specific effect, I can, at minimum, get four times the bonus of a Summoning focus item.  The downside is that I can only use it once a session.  Now, if I had a character with a frequency bonus or at least 6 shifts of Crafting Strength, I could really maximize my bonuses.

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Stationary Foci
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2012, 09:22:06 PM »
By RAW, of course, the best you're likely going to get is a reasonably easy Declaration, but I wouldn't object to a houserule that gave such things a single 1-point bonus, putting them on par with single-spell foci.

Yeah, this.

You could also handle it as an Aspect. Whenever the non-portable nature of your focus is a problem, it's a Compel.

Well, assuming Lore 5 and plenty of refinement slots, you could create a Reflecting Pool with +3 Complexity and +2 Control to Divination and Wards (or whatever).  This ends up taking 10 foci slots and requires something approximately the size of 100 basketballs.  (Rough extrapolation of how the size table increases every two focus slots.)

Basically, you'll need such large items when you apply bonuses to multiple categories - or when your Lore is abnormally high.

You sure about that? I thought you could only invest (Lore) slots in a focus. And I'm pretty sure there's some note about how all bonuses from a focus must be the same, though IIRC they ignore that when giving an example of how foci work.

Offline Mr. Death

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Re: Stationary Foci
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2012, 09:44:26 PM »
It's not that all bonuses must be the same, but that if you have multiple elements/thaumaturgy types in a single item, it has to have the same bonuses for each type. So you couldn't have a staff that was +1 control to fire and +1 power to wind, it'd have to be +1 control to both, or +1 power to both.

And I think it's that the bonus can't be more than double your Lore, but I'll have to check the book.
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Offline UmbraLux

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Re: Stationary Foci
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2012, 01:36:02 AM »
You sure about that? I thought you could only invest (Lore) slots in a focus. And I'm pretty sure there's some note about how all bonuses from a focus must be the same, though IIRC they ignore that when giving an example of how foci work.
I'm sure.  The "bonuses provided" can't exceed lore and "all bonuses of an item always apply to all of the types on the item".  The total number of slot used is "equal to the number of elements or types multiplied by the total of the bonuses".  It's all in the last two paragraphs on YS278. 

The only real question is whether or not the complexity and control bonuses have to be identical.  I prefer to separate the two to avoid monstrosities with +5 to everything.   :o
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Offline tymire

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Re: Stationary Foci
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2012, 06:06:12 PM »
Personally I never understood that.  You have to have a pyramid in everything else for fate, why not the focus items?

It is one of the things that makes wizards too powerful.  Which is even worse when it's combined with players that go "well I use spirit(or whatnot) for everything".....    :-\

Offline JDK002

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Re: Stationary Foci
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2012, 06:55:10 PM »
Personally I never understood that.  You have to have a pyramid in everything else for fate, why not the focus items?

It is one of the things that makes wizards too powerful.  Which is even worse when it's combined with players that go "well I use spirit(or whatnot) for everything".....    :-\
i thought there was a pyramid requirement for focus items.  I remember something in YS about it but I'm at work and can't double check.

As for a wizard using one element for everything.  If a wizard player is getting away with that then the GM is doing something wrong.  The GM should be a real stickler for what a wizard can do with a single element and put them in as many situations as possible that forces them to use all the tools wizards have. 

Offline UmbraLux

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Re: Stationary Foci
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2012, 07:46:36 PM »
Kinda wish foci used a pyramid scheme also.  Ah well.

As for elements, don't forget they are also aspects.  Compel or invoke when used inappropriately!

Edit:  Phone autocorrect has some interesting results.  :/
« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 08:07:20 PM by UmbraLux »
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Stationary Foci
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2012, 03:19:24 AM »
I'm sure.  The "bonuses provided" can't exceed lore and "all bonuses of an item always apply to all of the types on the item".  The total number of slot used is "equal to the number of elements or types multiplied by the total of the bonuses".  It's all in the last two paragraphs on YS278. 

The only real question is whether or not the complexity and control bonuses have to be identical.  I prefer to separate the two to avoid monstrosities with +5 to everything.   :o

I read that passage differently.

Anyway, focus pyramids aren't a bad idea. But not everything in Fate uses a pyramid, and not everything should.