Author Topic: The Glass Jawed Wizard  (Read 14932 times)

Offline amberpup

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Re: The Glass Jawed Wizard
« Reply #60 on: August 13, 2012, 10:00:02 PM »
I'm ok with a easy Lore roll at the start, so the wizard knows to counter spell. But I'm also thinking it could be cool to let a wizard who isn't that fast to still be able to counter spell to maybe lessen the attacking spell.

Because I rather stay away from giving a wizard even more reasons to get supernatural speed.

Offline THE_ANGRY_GAMER

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Re: The Glass Jawed Wizard
« Reply #61 on: August 13, 2012, 10:07:39 PM »
In that case, I'd just use a reactive block. Usually the same mental stress cost, simpler, and easier to do mechanically. I'm not a big fan of widespread reactive counterspelling.
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: The Glass Jawed Wizard
« Reply #62 on: August 13, 2012, 10:10:15 PM »
If you were in Centarion's camp, though, you would think it damages the game.  It's too good of an option.  Foci is one of the primary ways that wizards so drastically outstrip mortals in high-refresh games.

...

But that ties directly into the power level of magic.  It's an option in the core rules that significantly increases magical output and capability.  It's also significantly more potent, point-for-point of refresh, than any other option in the game.

Sorry, I was unclear.

I meant that I think the balance between foci and specializations is decent. I was trying to avoid the whole "how strong is magic" debate.

I'm not surprised.  You've got a good head on your shoulders even though we don't always agree on things.  Most good GMs and modern game designers would agree with us on that principle.  Game theory has come a long way in the last 30 years.

You're very kind.

PS: Two houserules that might be appropriate here:

1. Let Wizards use reactive blocks, but only against evocations. A Wizard buff and a Wizard nerf, all at once. I like this because a) it enables cool stuff, b) it makes spell fights less rocket-launcher-tag-like, c) it makes defensive foci better, and d) it doesn't actually make Wizards stronger the way normal reactive blocks do.

In fact, I might go so far as to let an unsuccessful spell-block reduce the blocked spell's power. So a 10 shift attack blocked by a 7 shift spell only inflicts 6 stress instead of 13.

2. Only let one focus be used on each spell, with the understanding the the (Lore) cap on slot spending applies to the total bonuses of a focus. This lowers the spending cap on Evocation, reducing the viability of uber-evokers.

Offline amberpup

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Re: The Glass Jawed Wizard
« Reply #63 on: August 13, 2012, 10:11:12 PM »
I'm not a big fan of widespread reactive counterspelling.

Why, if I may ask?

Offline Mr. Death

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Re: The Glass Jawed Wizard
« Reply #64 on: August 13, 2012, 10:15:36 PM »
In that case, I'd just use a reactive block. Usually the same mental stress cost, simpler, and easier to do mechanically. I'm not a big fan of widespread reactive counterspelling.
Maybe, but I can see advantages to counterspelling instead of blocking--a block might stop, say, a beam of fire from hitting you, but may end up being thrown into the wall or the rafters or something. A counterspell would presumably just make the spell stop happening, so there'd be no splash.
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Offline amberpup

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Re: The Glass Jawed Wizard
« Reply #65 on: August 13, 2012, 10:22:08 PM »
Maybe, but I can see advantages to counterspelling instead of blocking--a block might stop, say, a beam of fire from hitting you, but may end up being thrown into the wall or the rafters or something. A counterspell would presumably just make the spell stop happening, so there'd be no splash.

Good catch, Mr. Death....missed that myself. I now see alot of situations where a counterspell would be so much better if suddenly your gm decides to get creative with splash.

Offline THE_ANGRY_GAMER

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Re: The Glass Jawed Wizard
« Reply #66 on: August 13, 2012, 10:34:46 PM »
Why, if I may ask?

I dunno. From a fluff perspective, counterspelling is disrupting the magical energies of a spell, so you'd need a second or two - in game terms, an exchange - to identify what those energies are and how to disrupt them (the Lore assessment), then actually do it (the counterspell). Thus, one exchange for a countespell. If you'd held action and interrupted, it would make sense that you did the first part while the enemy spellslinger was drawing their power, and could do the second part quickly. In an ordinary exchange, though, there just isn't *time* to study analyse the energies of the fireball that's on its way to melt your face. You either get out of the way (defend with Athletics) or, if you're good, nullify it with an opposing force (reactive block with Water or Spirit or whatever).

From a mechanics perspective, I feel that allowing casters to simply disappear any spell effect makes counterspelling too powerful, and it makes magic duels/fights *boring*. A series of spells fizzling from existence in between the casters isn't as cool as opposing spell energies clashing in the space inbetween them, or characters frantically throwing themselves aside just in time to dodge a bolt of lightning. There are mechanical benefits to the wizard counterspelling, but I feel that if you're having a full-on magical duel there should be some environmental damage.

PS: Two houserules that might be appropriate here:

1. Let Wizards use reactive blocks, but only against evocations. A Wizard buff and a Wizard nerf, all at once. I like this because a) it enables cool stuff, b) it makes spell fights less rocket-launcher-tag-like, c) it makes defensive foci better, and d) it doesn't actually make Wizards stronger the way normal reactive blocks do.

In fact, I might go so far as to let an unsuccessful spell-block reduce the blocked spell's power. So a 10 shift attack blocked by a 7 shift spell only inflicts 6 stress instead of 13.

2. Only let one focus be used on each spell, with the understanding the the (Lore) cap on slot spending applies to the total bonuses of a focus. This lowers the spending cap on Evocation, reducing the viability of uber-evokers.

1. This was what I meant. I wouldn't normally allow this vs. straight physical attacks or ambushes - if you're being shot at or caught off guard, you can't concentrate enough to cast the necessary spell. I *might* allow reactive blocks vs. gunfire - but only with a stunt or expenditure of a Fate Point to invoke a requisite Aspect (like 'cool under pressure' or something)

2. Apparently this isn't RAW, but I'd never allow (or use) more than one Focus per spell. not sure what you mean about the Lore cap, though. Could you explain?

Good catch, Mr. Death....missed that myself. I now see alot of situations where a counterspell would be so much better if suddenly your gm decides to get creative with splash.

See my above point on the destructive effects of Magical duels. This is just my preference, but I'm sticking to it.

Maybe, but I can see advantages to counterspelling instead of blocking--a block might stop, say, a beam of fire from hitting you, but may end up being thrown into the wall or the rafters or something. A counterspell would presumably just make the spell stop happening, so there'd be no splash.

True, although I'd argue that, depending on the way the block is described, this might not happen. A straight harry-style Spirit shield is one thing, but using Water to create a column of water to quench the fire or merely altering its course away from you are all blocks, mechanically. I'd use both of these to make Scene Aspects, as GM - the first, 'Cloud of Steam', the second would set something on fire.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 08:06:06 AM by THE_ANGRY_GAMER »
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: The Glass Jawed Wizard
« Reply #67 on: August 13, 2012, 11:15:28 PM »
2. Apparently this isn't RAW, but I'd never allow (or use) more than one Focus per spell. not sure what you mean about the Lore cap, though. Could you explain?

You get one power focus, and one control focus. That's the rules as written and the rules as intended, I'm pretty sure.

Might not be the ideal rule, though.

You can't invest more than (Lore) focus slots in one item. Or maybe you can't invest more than (Lore) slots in any particular bonus. I thought it was the former, but apparently it's ambiguous.

Regardless, the idea here is to make impossible the character with two staffs that together give +5 offensive spirit power and +5 offensive spirit control.

Offline THE_ANGRY_GAMER

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Re: The Glass Jawed Wizard
« Reply #68 on: August 13, 2012, 11:19:03 PM »
You get one power focus, and one control focus. That's the rules as written and the rules as intended, I'm pretty sure.

Might not be the ideal rule, though.

You can't invest more than (Lore) focus slots in one item. Or maybe you can't invest more than (Lore) slots in any particular bonus. I thought it was the former, but apparently it's ambiguous.

Regardless, the idea here is to make impossible the character with two staffs that together give +5 offensive spirit power and +5 offensive spirit control.

Okay that makes sense. I wouldn't allow that kind of abuse of Foci. In the background, Harry only ever uses one focus-per-spell.
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: The Glass Jawed Wizard
« Reply #69 on: August 13, 2012, 11:35:50 PM »
It isn't abuse. It's just use.

Offline GryMor

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Re: The Glass Jawed Wizard
« Reply #70 on: August 14, 2012, 12:48:38 AM »
Okay that makes sense. I wouldn't allow that kind of abuse of Foci. In the background, Harry only ever uses one focus-per-spell.

I'm not sure that is actually true, that said, Harry hasn't invested very much in evocation Foci, has them split across multiple elements, and doesn't have the control to make good use of a power Foci in any of his elements.

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Offline crusher_bob

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Re: The Glass Jawed Wizard
« Reply #71 on: August 14, 2012, 04:09:45 AM »
If you are going to allow reactive evocation blocks, I think allowing reactive counterspelling is not that different.

A reactive counterspell has the advantage of being against the power of the spell, which helps reign in the 'all control, no need for power' offensive caster.  But the limit of the counterspell is that it only ever works against on spell, it won't persist like a block could. 

I'm not as strongly against reactive evocation blocks because I think that giving the wizard the opportunity to run themselves out of mental stress twice as fast means that even shorter fights make the wizard face using consequences to fuel spells, .