Crafting and Alternate Weapons Help

[matiez]

I'm running a Fantasy game using the Dresden Fate system. Magic exists and is quite prominant. In fact, the mortals of the world have figured out how to harness the magic through Alchemy to get Guns and Airships. One character has claimed Airship Pilot and Mechanic while another has claimed Marksmen and Weaponsmith.

My question is how do I run Craft Alchemy without making it a Power (thus removing the Pure Mortal template)? This means that Craft Alchemy has to be a stunt utilizing the existing crafting rules. Though, the existing rules don't say much beyond "you can craft mundane stuff". I have several ideas so far:

Idea 1: Craft Alchemy Stunt

This stunt would simply add a trapping to allow the mundane crafting rules to include Alchemy. Thus, only those who study alchemy can actually craft with it. However, I'm not sure how to craft a Car or a Flash Grenade (or even the rules of a flash grenade). How can I leave this openended?

Idea 2: Batman Utility Belt Stunts

Basically, take a stunt and use what you crafted as the explanation. I don't like this idea because anyone can just grab a Flash Grenade and use it. They don't need a stunt to do so.

Idea 3: Combination of the two

A suggestion I saw at this thread: http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,17945.15.html

After this wall of txt, I'm leaning heavily towards Idea 1. Just need to figure out the specifics.

[Silverblaze]

Declarations can handle utility belts.  My character has one.  He also has a fair bit of scholarship, craftsmanship, and potion slots to handle the rest.

I'd say alchemy related stuff works best and a system similar to potion declarations.

[Sanctaphrax]

What exactly do you want to be able to do?

[matiez]

After much thought I came up with this.

It seems to be just on the edge of broken while still allowing the spell casters a massive advantage.

[Becq]

A couple of possibilities:

1) In a high-magic setting, perhaps everyone has magic potential, which is to say you might just drop the "Pure Mortal" template and the pure mortal bonus, and assume everyone is a quasi-minor practitioner.  Perhaps you might create a -1 version of ritual that only allows for "everyman"-style alchemy.
2) Allow players to buy Refinement for enchanted items, even without one of the spellcasting powers.
3) Adapt the rules for Science! from Spirit of the Century.

[Sanctaphrax]

After much thought I came up with this.

It seems to be just on the edge of broken while still allowing the spell casters a massive advantage.

Those aren't stunts. There's really nothing stuntlike about them.

Why not just use Powers?

[matiez]

Those aren't stunts. There's really nothing stuntlike about them.

Why not just use Powers?

They are stronger than standard stunts, hence the reason they cost -2 Power Points instead of just -1. I am definitely overpowering the stunts, but that's my personal and groups call. These are stunt-like in the fact that they add trappings to the Crafting Skill.

Powers wouldn't work because you don't need magic to use Alchemy. If it were a power, then you would have to be magical in nature in order to use. In the world we are playing in, magic is outlawed. Hence the difference.

This is a way for my players to grab Craft Alchemy without becoming magical. It is also a way to ensure that the crafters are being useful to the group, instead of spending the majority of their time building something that'll take longer than the campaign to finish.

[AstronaughtAndy]

I dont know if you're familiar with Spirit of the Century, but they have rules for "Gadgets" which you might want to check out, as far as Alchemy goes.

Otherwise I would just take the enchanted item rules, rename them Alchemical Items, switch Lore to Scholarship and call it a day.

[InFerrumVeritas]

They are stronger than standard stunts, hence the reason they cost -2 Power Points instead of just -1. I am definitely overpowering the stunts, but that's my personal and groups call. These are stunt-like in the fact that they add trappings to the Crafting Skill.

Powers wouldn't work because you don't need magic to use Alchemy. If it were a power, then you would have to be magical in nature in order to use. In the world we are playing in, magic is outlawed. Hence the difference.

This is a way for my players to grab Craft Alchemy without becoming magical. It is also a way to ensure that the crafters are being useful to the group, instead of spending the majority of their time building something that'll take longer than the campaign to finish.

You're confusing Fluff and mechanics. 

Mechanically, "pure mortals" get bonus fate points because they forgo access to powers, which would otherwise put them at a distinct disadvantage as the DFRPG variant of fate makes even -1 powers significantly stronger than it allows stunts to be.

The fluff is that pure mortals, that is those without magic or "talents", have more free will (which fate points are fluffed as representing).

Alchemy Powers can be considered nonmagical in world, but a stunt which grants even one enchanted item or potion per session is significantly stronger than virtually every other stunt unless you fundamentally change how enchanted items work.  Existing solutions on the boards that I like allow mortals to have enchanted items and keep their bonus, but require a fate point to be spent to use said item (effectively negating the "pure mortal" bonus).

If you're simply looking for a way to make crafting apply to "alchemical" items, why do you need a stunt?  A character could use Craftsmanship to create a flash grenade in DFRPG (likely modified by contacts or resources).  YS320 for more.

[Sanctaphrax]

They are stronger than standard stunts, hence the reason they cost -2 Power Points instead of just -1.

You can't actually do that. Stunts cost 1, period.

I once proposed a houserule to allow multi-refresh stunts. But that's a houserule.

These are stunt-like in the fact that they add trappings to the Crafting Skill.

They don't really.

They use multiple skills, and create their own subsystem. That's basically always power territory.

The line between stunts and powers is pretty thin, honestly. But these are about as far on the power side as they could possibly be.

Powers wouldn't work because you don't need magic to use Alchemy. If it were a power, then you would have to be magical in nature in order to use. In the world we are playing in, magic is outlawed. Hence the difference.

This is a way for my players to grab Craft Alchemy without becoming magical. It is also a way to ensure that the crafters are being useful to the group, instead of spending the majority of their time building something that'll take longer than the campaign to finish.

You don't actually need magic to have powers. Look at Hulking Size. An elephant has that, it's not magical.

Also look at Murphy from the novels. She's a mortal, but she uses some serious powers at least once in the series.

Also look at Father Forthill. He's just a dude who's got genuine faith in God, nothing magic about him. But the RPG represents that with powers.

PS: There's no reason that stunt-based alchemy would have to take a long time.