Questions for Jim 2012 style 2

[cass]

Something that's been striking me during my current "listen through" at work - Is Jim putting Harry and Molly on opposite sides of minor (but often heated) issues?

1. Star Trek (Molly) vs Star Wars (Harry) - Ghost Story
2. McDonalds (Molly) vs Burger King (Harry) - Small Favor  Molly and Thomas vote, Harry overrides.
3. DC Comics (Superman shirt - Molly) ("Last Call") vs. Marvel Comics (Harry) (almost always)
4. Pepsi (Molly) ("Last Call") vs Coke (Harry) (always)  - Harry calls her a heathen.
5. Careful reading of a paperback to not crease the spine (Molly) vs. dog-eared, well loved books (Harry) (Turn Coat)  Harry calls her a wuss.

not to mention the younger/older, blonde/brunette, delicate magic/brute force magic, always changing vs. stuck in a routine...

...male/female, crappy home life/loving family....possibly also "no faith in God"/"religious background"

What's more: Harry is a purist wrt the Star Wars/Star Trek debate, Molly is the opposite end of that spectrum: she argues that she can like them both.  No word yet on whether this contrast (purist-ism vs. acceptance) carries over to other areas.

[Gman]

...male/female, crappy home life/loving family....possibly also "no faith in God"/"religious background"

What's more: Harry is a purist wrt the Star Wars/Star Trek debate, Molly is the opposite end of that spectrum: she argues that she can like them both.  No word yet on whether this contrast (purist-ism vs. acceptance) carries over to other areas.

Molly could have been rebelling against Harry in minor ways on some of it and just haves different likes in other ways.

[nickoy95]

I'm guessing Lasciel was footing the bill for Hellfire usage for Harry since he never experienced the Soulfire slump when using Hellfire.

My theory for how harry's hellfire never ran out is this: soulfire runs off his soul and is replenished by Harry having feel good moments with other people according to Bob. What if hellfire also runs off of the soul but is replenished by Harry having angry moments? Like if it regenerates every time he uses magic in anger or something

[KevinSig]

My theory for how harry's hellfire never ran out is this: soulfire runs off his soul and is replenished by Harry having feel good moments with other people according to Bob. What if hellfire also runs off of the soul but is replenished by Harry having angry moments? Like if it regenerates every time he uses magic in anger or something

Interesting...  Kinda ties into what I've said earlier:

Was there a price for Hellfire?  Soulfire uses Harry's own soul as tinder.  You've said that Hellfire is sort of an opposite side of the coin.  So, did Hellfire also burn up Harry's soul?

On a guess, Soulfire trends towards bad bits & Hellfire targets the good bits of a soul?

I'm guessing Lasciel was footing the bill for Hellfire usage for Harry since he never experienced the Soulfire slump when using Hellfire.

As for Lash outright giving Harry Hellfire, I'm not really certain of this, now that I think on it.  Sure, I can see Lashiel's shadow giving Harry access to the power, but she's a limited entity.  She'd either have to be a conduit directly hooked up to hell, or the power should gradually have gotten weaker over the course of the books.

It didn't & hence the issue with the idea that it comes from Lash.

Plus, we know that Soulfire is charged by the soul, and so it's reasonable to assume that Hellfire works the same way, since there's WOJ it's basically the opposite of Soulfire.

[TheCuriousFan]

As for Lash outright giving Harry Hellfire, I'm not really certain of this, now that I think on it.  Sure, I can see Lashiel's shadow giving Harry access to the power, but she's a limited entity.  She'd either have to be a conduit directly hooked up to hell, or the power should gradually have gotten weaker over the course of the books.

I wasn't saying Lash was providing the Hellfire on her own, I would say it was Lasciel footing the bill with the channel between her and Lash providing Harry access.

[KevinSig]

I wasn't saying Lash was providing the Hellfire on her own, I would say it was Lasciel footing the bill with the channel between her and Lash providing Harry access.

With the circle barrier around her coin, I'm doubtful Lash was able to get anything from Lashiel.  And while it isn't strictly laid out, I suspect in most coin possessions, the shadow construct does have communication with the Fallen trapped in the coin, giving it access to the Fallen's Intellecteus.

However, by placing the coin in the circle, Harry circumvented this.

I mean, from Micheal's comments, you'd think that the coin would present an impossible to resist temptation.  While Lash was tempting at times, she never really came across nearly as manipulative as Michael seems to suggest.

So that's my reasoning for Intellecteus being a factor.

...

That aside, the point remains, I don't see Lash being able to work directly with Lashiel, thanks to the circle.  I think the only reason Harry might have been able to summon the coin from the circle is because it was his Will that created it.

If another Wizard had so confined the coin, that might not even be an issue.

[TheCuriousFan]

Hmmm, that would explain why Lash wasn't as tempting as expected. That that does leave me wondering why no slump post Hellfire use and why Bob didn't point out to Harry that he was missing chunks of his soul.

[Sheaman3773]

With the circle barrier around her coin, I'm doubtful Lash was able to get anything from Lashiel.  And while it isn't strictly laid out, I suspect in most coin possessions, the shadow construct does have communication with the Fallen trapped in the coin, giving it access to the Fallen's Intellecteus.

However, by placing the coin in the circle, Harry circumvented this.

I mean, from Micheal's comments, you'd think that the coin would present an impossible to resist temptation.  While Lash was tempting at times, she never really came across nearly as manipulative as Michael seems to suggest.

So that's my reasoning for Intellecteus being a factor.

...

That aside, the point remains, I don't see Lash being able to work directly with Lashiel, thanks to the circle.  I think the only reason Harry might have been able to summon the coin from the circle is because it was his Will that created it.

If another Wizard had so confined the coin, that might not even be an issue.

That's an interesting set of theories. I'm rather more in favor of the idea that placing the coin within the circle didn't do anything in and of itself so much as it symbolized a conscious rejection of Lasciel. That keeps the conduit between the Fallen and her shadow open and clear, so Hellfire is fine, but the rules prevent anything more overt--which further explains Malcolm showing up in the dream the same night that the shadow created the hallucination of Sheila.

I don't really buy the Intellecteus theory, partially just in response to the large number of theories that cropped up about everything and it's cousin having Intellecteus after finding out about the island and Shagnasty, but also partially because it just doesn't read that way to me. The shadow could only do so much because of the kind of person that Harry is; tell him to do one thing and he'll probably do the opposite just out of reflex. And since she could hardly tell him to make sure he never accepted her temptations...

It's also important to remember that circles aren't perfect--even in the first book, the backlash from Harry messing up Victor's circle destroyed the one around the Beckitts, so clearly it's possible for the coin's retrieval spell to be able to brute force or finesse its way past his precautions.

[TheCuriousFan]

I don't really buy the Intellecteus theory, partially just in response to the large number of theories that cropped up about everything and it's cousin having Intellecteus after finding out about the island and Shagnasty, but also partially because it just doesn't read that way to me. The

Uh, angels, Fallen or otherwise are confirmed to have Intellectus.

[Sheaman3773]

I thought that it was Archangels who had Intellectus, not all angels. The Fallen aren't Archangels, are they?

[peregrine]

And it's "confirmed" in that Bob said so, who can be mistaken himself.

[TheCuriousFan]

I thought that it was Archangels who had Intellectus, not all angels. The Fallen aren't Archangels, are they?

According to Harry's statement about Intellectus, Angels (presumably both kinds) and the Faerie Mothers both have Intellectus.

[Quantus]

And it's "confirmed" in that Bob said so, who can be mistaken himself.

Not even that much, it was Harry's explanation of it to Molly.  Angels were the example of extremely ancient and powerful things that have it, and he said he was pretty sure the mothers did as well.  There are decent odds that said information came from Bob, but even then it could still be suspect. 

[King Ash]

We also have that Morgan didn't contradict him at the time for added believability.

[Korwin]

Even then Intellectus is not Intellectus.

I would suppose if all Angels and Fallen have Intellectus, their Intellectus would have something to do with their (former) job.
In other words a very limited Intellectus for the 'small' (without an Arch-) ones.

It would not help Lasciel much, to know everything about spiders.