A More Detailed Medieval Weapons List

[InFerrumVeritas]

I'm doing a version of FATE heavily inspired/completely converted from D&D for a friend of mine.  He likes the aspects and classless character creation of FATE, but wants to play in his high fantasy dungeon looting sandbox.

So, because of this, I knew I'd need a much more detailed Weapons and armor list.  Here it is if anyone is interested:

Unarmed 0 used with Fists skill
Gauntlets/Brass Knuckles 1 used with Fists skill
Dagger/Knife 1 small, can be thrown

Swords:
Shortsword 2
Longsword 3
Bastard Sword 4 requires two hands, but may be used one handed on horseback
Greatsword 5 requires two hands, Might restricts

Axes:
Handaxe/Throwing Axe 2 can be thrown
Battleaxe 3
Waraxe 4 requires two hands
Greataxe 5 requires two hands, Might restricts

Hammers/Picks:
Light Hammer/Pick 1 small, can be thrown
Heavy Pick 2
Warhammer 3

Maces/Clubs:
Baton 1 small
Club/Light Mace 2
Quarterstaff 2 requires two hands
Heavy Mace/Morningstar 3

Pole-arms:
Shortspear/Trident/Javelin 2 can be thrown two zones
Spear 2 reach weapon
Lance 3 requires two hands, may be used one handed on horseback, reach weapon
Halberd/Guisarme/Glaive 4 requires two hands, reach weapon

Flails:
Flail 3
Heavy Flail 4 requires two hands

Sling 1
Dart/Shuriken 1 thrown only

Bows:
Shortbow 2 requires two hands
Longbow 3 requires two hands, cannot be used on horseback
Greatbow 4 requires two hands, cannot be used on horseback, Might restricts

Crossbow:
Hand Crossbow 2, supplemental action to reload
Light Crossbow 3, requires two hands, supplemental action to reload
Heavy Crossbow 4, requires two hands, supplemental action to reload

Thrown weapons can be thrown one zone away (javelins two zones).
Other ranged weapons have a range equal to your Ranged Weapons skill.
Reach weapons cannot be defended against with the Melee Weapons skill unless target is using a shield (default defense with Athletics).
Weapons which require two hands cannot be used with a shield.
Small weapons may not use the Melee Weapons skill to defend against other weapons.

And the armor:

Light Armor 1
Medium Armor 2 Endurance restricts Athletics and other physical skills
Heavy Armor 3 Endurance and Might restrict Athletics and other physical skills

Light Shield 1, Weapon 1
Heavy Shield 2, Weapon 2

Armor Descriptions:
Light Armor is a category including padded hauberks, leather armor, and mail shirts.  This armor is relatively easy to wear and doesn’t normally restrict movement.

Medium Armor is a category including heavy hide armors, scale, mail, and breastplates.  This armor is fatiguing to wear.  Endurance restricts your Athletics skill, and may restrict other physical skills.  Endurance restricts a spellcaster’s Discipline while casting as well.

Heavy Armor is a category including reinforced mail and plate armors.  This armor is very difficult to move in and incredibly tiring to wear.  Endurance and Might restrict your Athletics skill, and may restrict other physical skills.  Both of these also restrict a spellcaster’s Disicpline while casting.  This means that if both your Endurance and your Might are lower than the restricted skill, you take a −2 penalty.  If only one is lower, you still take a −1.

Shields are quite advantageous to use.  They allow a character to use their Melee Weapons skill to defend against ranged attacks and reach weapons.  Shields also provide an Armor bonus which, unlike most Armor bonuses, stacks with an Armor bonus from armor a character is wearing.  They do not, however, stack with magical Armor bonuses, such as those from enchanted items.  Shields may also be used as a weapon, but doing so means that you take a −2 on all defense rolls until your next turn.

[Tedronai]

Is it your express intent that this list significantly increase weapons values, particularly those already at the higher end of the spectrum?

[ways and means]

Is it your express intent that this list significantly increase weapons values, particularly those already at the higher end of the spectrum?

He also significantly increases the Armour ratings especially for a shielded character so I find it balances out, the only weakness it has is makes toughness powers weaker unless the Armour stacks. 

[Sanctaphrax]

Not a huge fan.

Partly because of the weapon/armour value inflation, partly because you've made hands into a resource, and partly because the shields penalize defense when you attack with them, partly because of the bit where normal weapons can't defend against long ones.

I dislike the second thing because it means that I can't just arbitrarily give people extra arms. Suddenly that's broken.

I dislike the third because it doesn't fit with the rest of the game. I can't think of a single other thing that imposes a penalty to defense rolls.

And the fourth just doesn't make much sense to me.

On another note, you really should make it clear whether armour makes Endurance restrict Weapons.

PS: Have you considered giving weapons more stats? Like Armour Penetration or Accuracy or Parry?
PPS: Ranged Weapons and Melee Weapons are not distinct skills.

[Silverblaze]

Too many extra rules.  I dislike that.

I agree it is closer to realism, many different weapons should have varying degrees of efficiency and therefore damage...but this system decided a sword and gun do the exact same damage.  Working within those parameters: the weapon 5 stuff and attempt at realism may be misplaced.

I figure the nastiest weapons of that era should be weapon 4.  (barring siege equipment which may well be as powerful as many modern military weapons)

[Becq]

Perhaps you could give various weapons a bit more differentiation by way of bonuses to certain maneuvers/declarations, and/or by treating each weapon as an aspect.  For example, perhaps polearms could allow the wielder a bonus to maneuver a held at bay aspect, and/or the ability to invoke the weapon aspect for a bonus against mounted targets.  Bludgeoning weapons might grant a bonus to applying a stunned aspect to their target.  (And so on.)

Note that the "bonus" granted could vary, depending on preference.  It could be as simple as a +1 or +2 to the maneuver rolls.  Or it could be as significant as being able to perform the maneuver as a supplemental action, assuming you hit with your attack action.  My guess is that putting the benefits somewhere in the "weak to modest" range of stunts might work best.

Another option might be to grant special bonuses only to those trained in the particular weapon -- make a serious of "stronger" stunts that represent such training.

Note that none of the above is intended to be balanced for use in a standard DFRPG game, but could work for a more weapon-focused fantasy homebrew setting.

[InFerrumVeritas]

In the port that I'm doing, Toughness powers are rather different.  Stress boxes are easier to come by.  Again, it's based on D&D. 

My reasoning with shields: I dislike the idea that a shield could be a single piece of equipment that does everything.  That is, defend against anything, attack, and provide armor.  Hence the penalty to defense if you attack with it.  There's a stunt that prevents this.

I did consider other rules.  Specifically:

Flails ignore armor bonus from shields.
Swords provide +1 bonus to defense rolls.
Hammers and picks ignore mundane Armor (but not from shields) equal to Weapon rating.
Axes inflict consequences one step higher.
On a successful attack, maces and clubs place “Battered” aspect of Weapon rating strength vs. Endurance.
Polearms block opponents’ movement equal to Weapon rating on a successful attack.
Whips gain +2 on maneuvers.
Daggers gain +1 on attacks.  This stacks with the Weapon Focus talent.
This may be taken multiple times, but must apply to a different weapon group each time.

These have become stunts.

On Weapon values increasing: I want mundane characters to be on par with spellcasters.  Spellcasting is easier and doesn't have Laws restricting it.  Since mental stress is more common, it's even more potent.  Stronger weapon values aids in this.

[Mr. Death]

Too many extra rules.  I dislike that.

Agreed. And, as stated previously, I have problems with the idea of hand-held weapons having the same weapon ratings as speeding vehicles.

[DFJunkie]

Well since this is a medieval fantasy setting "speeding vehicles" probably aren't on the table.

OP said he's planning on giving out more stress boxes, and weapon rating are only meaningful in the context of how much damage it takes to get to those tasty, tasty consequences, so a Weapon:5 axe might not be that overwhelming in his hack.

[edit] Forget what I was saying about aspects instead of rules, those work just fine as stunts.

[Tedronai]

OP said he's planning on giving out more stress boxes, and weapon rating are only meaningful in the context of how much damage it takes to get to those tasty, tasty consequences, so a Weapon:5 axe might not be that overwhelming in his hack.

And in determining the number and magnitude of consequences that would need to be taken to stave off being taken out.

I suggest at least contemplating inflating the value of consequences to compensate for this. (2/5/8/11? 2/5/7/10? I don't know)

[bjh31]

Too many extra rules.  I dislike that.

Agree. I dislike this list

Have you consider taking a page out of Strands of Fate and just give each weapon and armor their own Aspect . You can then just invoked or compelled them while you're using them, just like normal Aspect. So if you‘re using a dagger, and you get into close combat with a great sword wielder, you might invoke their sword’s Huge Aspect to get a bonus to attack or defend against them.

[InFerrumVeritas]

I dislike the aspect fractal as a core of a system.  It's a great way to address issues on the fly, but I prefer a simple rule.

I could remove the bit about Small and Reach weapons.

[fantazero]

I guess I gotta ask, why make Combat more crunchy than needed?

[Becq]

As he mentioned up top, he's trying out a custom blend of D&D and Fate, combining Fate's classlessness and D&D's largely equipment-based system.  Why?  His player(s) prefer it that way.  Regardless, thus the desire to have greater weapon differentiation.

[Sanctaphrax]

Crunch is fun!

I actually like the idea of this project, it's just got flawed execution.

In the port that I'm doing, Toughness powers are rather different.  Stress boxes are easier to come by.  Again, it's based on D&D. 

My reasoning with shields: I dislike the idea that a shield could be a single piece of equipment that does everything.  That is, defend against anything, attack, and provide armor.  Hence the penalty to defense if you attack with it.  There's a stunt that prevents this.

I did consider other rules.  Specifically:
These have become stunts.

On Weapon values increasing: I want mundane characters to be on par with spellcasters.  Spellcasting is easier and doesn't have Laws restricting it.  Since mental stress is more common, it's even more potent.  Stronger weapon values aids in this.

It's become clear that the mechanical context here is entirely different from that of normal DFRPG.

If you want really meaningful feedback, you'll need to tell us what you've done to the rules.

Why not have shields provide armour only when you don't attack with them?

PS: I actually like that list of extra effects, though some seem iffy. If you're going to make weapons matter, why not go all the way?