Stats for Zats

[bjh31]

So I'm been thinking of doing a Stargate Roleplay using DFRPG, and for the most part I can run it out of the box with no trouble with only some minor reflavouring. The only snag I run into is this.

Zat'nik'tel. A.K.A Zats.

You knows, one shot stun, two shots kills, three shots Disintegrate.

I have no clue how to write it up gameplay wise. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. 

[AstronaughtAndy]

I think the book suggests that Tasers and similar weapons make a maneuver (ie. "You Tazed Me, Bro!") in lieu of dealing stress. Or a Zat could just deal an absurdly high amount of stress and always chooses "Stunned" on the first taken out and "Killed" on the second.

[Sanctaphrax]

What exactly is a zat?

Assuming it's a gun of some kind, why not just give it a weapon rating?

[Silverblaze]

Any weapon that kills taht often has  in an RPG in my opinion.

Weapon rating 20 sounds appropriate if you want to ruin a game though.

[Haru]

What exactly is a zat?

Assuming it's a gun of some kind, why not just give it a weapon rating?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTNLicBIM-o (happens in the first 15 seconds, though not a very good example, but I couldn't find anything else)
A zat is a gun that hits you with lightning/electricity and your lights go out, sort of like a ramped up taser. I don't think there is an incident where a character got hit and kept going (special armor or similar things not included). So just a high weapon rating wouldn't really do it justice.

Maybe something else entirely:
Give a zat a negative skill modifier, which reflects it's bad aim. A -2 seems appropriate, maybe more if needed. In exchange, a hit will always result in a "Stunned" taken out result. That way you can still maneuver your way around, and the target is in effect one aspect ahead. You would have to try this out, I have no idea if this would actually be feasible in game, though. If you try it, let me know how it went.

[admiralducksauce]

If zats were so great, did they ever explain why everyone didn't just use those? If they DID explain that (either in the show, or maybe in the AEG rpg), then you could build off those limitations. All I can think of is that they can't make more, so they're not going to replace their primary weapons with zats. But, I'm pretty sure everyone or at least more people than just Teal'c carry them as sidearms later on. If that's the case, then we can work with that.

1. Zats should be better than pistols.
2. Zats should have drawbacks to where they are not an obvious optimum choice over an AR or SMG with armor-piercing rounds (which is essentially how they treat the P90 and it's 5.7mm ammo).

I'd strike a balance as best I could between what's shown on the show and rpg playability. I think AstronautAndy's suggestion of treating them like juiced-up tasers works. Have them deal say, maybe Weapon:2 physical damage and apply "Stunned" to their target. With any decent enough attack roll, you should be able to deal enough stress to Take Out a mook or minion, someone who's not going to take Consequences. Then, you can use the free tag on "Stunned" to initiate a Compel for unconsciousness. If the target doesn't have any FP, they can't refuse the Compel and they go down. Now, when it comes to killing on the second shot? Honestly, that's where you have to leave off the simulation. If you Take someone Out after they've taken a hit from the zat, then they're dead, but there should be NO shortcuts to character death like "Second shot kills".

Limits? Make the zat short-ranged, maybe 1 zone at most. It depends on how wide your own concept of zones are and how far you let other ranged weapons fire. Make zats' range shorter than that. Make zats run out of juice. Make the DC to acquire them high, if that is even an issue in your campaign. But those are just delaying tactics - if the zat is in your game, eventually the PCs will encounter them and then they will get their hands on them.

[AstronaughtAndy]

Potential Drawbacks:
Zats do not seem very ergonomical.
Low rate of fire?
The Goauld will probably have sensors that can detect their own technology, but not P90s. 
A time limit for making the second kill shot.
The fourth shot undesintigrates.

Also you can just tell your players, "if you use Zats to kill off non-minion NPCs, eventually the bad guys will do the same to you."

Also I feel like in the later seasons some of the main characters (specifically Teal'c) take more than one Zat shot without being stunned/killed. To go along with this, Jaffa Warrior Number Three can probably only take a mild consequence before being taken out, so a Zat may not need to have a super high weapons rating.

[Tedronai]

Zats were not available in sufficient quantities to the SGC to issue as standard weapons (essentially only procured by 'harvesting' them from defeated enemies and their supply depots/shipments).
The power source for Zats was similarly restricted in availability, though rarely needing replacement as compared to projectile weapon magazines.

The primary weapons available to the forces that created and widely issued Zats were generally more lethal, effective at longer range, and prone to instilling more fear in the populace (an important factor when those forces acted primarily in policing and counter-insurgency efforts for a brutal dictatorial regime).

Zats were comparatively large and clumsy as compared to the sidearms issued by the SGC, and comparatively inaccurate as compared to the P90 (and other similar SMGs and light assault rifles) and proved to have only comparable efficacy when the projectile weapons were wielded by skilled hands.

Shots from Zats were wholly blocked by even relatvely flimsy barriers, or even such things as the bars of a jail cell.


I'm sure I could continue, but I think the above demonstrates that Zats are far from 'godly' as compared to more mundane weaponry.

[AstronaughtAndy]

Mandatory Colonel O'Neil quote on Goauld vs Human weaponry (he was talking about the Staff Weapon, but I think it still applies):

"This is a weapon of terror. It's made to intimidate the enemy. (Holds up P90) This is a weapon of war. It's made to kill the enemy."

[ImpishMortal]

Given what we've seen in action on SG-1 and some of the suggestions in this thread, how about something like this?

Zat Gun
Variable Power. If used against organic beings, the Zat Gun functions as a Weapon:0. Electronics are a different matter, against which it functions as a Weapon:3.
Short Ranged. Due to the unstable nature of the rounds fired by the Zat Gun, the effective target range is limited to 1 zone.
One To Stun, Two To Kill. If an organic being is successfully hit and takes stress from this weapon, they immediately take a sticky aspect Stunned/Slowed for the remainder of the scene. If the same target is successfully hit and takes stress from a Zat Gun in the same scene, they die.

I figure the Weapon:0 against organic beings is true to the portrayal of the gun in the show. If the target has armor, it will be harder to damage and give the sticky aspect, just like in the show. I just tossed this together, so feel free to modify or critique at will.

[Mr. Death]

So, uh, what's the problem wit just making it a Weapon:2 item and specifying that a Taken Out is a stun? The kill setting is pretty much strictly executions, not combat.

Remember, a hit with the dice doesn't mean it's a hit in the narrative.

[ImpishMortal]

I think the OP wanted stats that accurately portrayed the mythology of the show. The weapon would be fairly balanced if someone wanted to use it in tandem with characters using reular guns.
For me, giving a character a weapon that the GM gets to decide if it hits or not seems kinda iffy. Either the weapon is too overpowered, or it's just a plot device to be used at the GM's discretion.

[Mr. Death]

For me, giving a character a weapon that the GM gets to decide if it hits or not seems kinda iffy. Either the weapon is too overpowered, or it's just a plot device to be used at the GM's discretion.

That's...pretty much how every weapon works. When you roll a successful hit with a sword and cause 2 stress, you're not whacking him with the blade and it bounces off. Any weapon with lethal potential (read: Every weapon) works that way--you only take a narrative 'hit' when you choose to.

[bjh31]

Thanks for all the feedback guys, it really helping me out here

I think the OP wanted stats that accurately portrayed the mythology of the show. The weapon would be fairly balanced if someone wanted to use it in tandem with characters using reular guns.

Right on the money. That is my ideal goal.

That's...pretty much how every weapon works. When you roll a successful hit with a sword and cause 2 stress, you're not whacking him with the blade and it bounces off. Any weapon with lethal potential (read: Every weapon) works that way--you only take a narrative 'hit' when you choose to.

That true, Stress is not so much like health as it more like plot armor, but then how would I treat consequences?

I'll write up a rouge daft either latter on today or tomorrows.

[Mr. Death]

Treat them the way you would with another weapon.

A mild consequence from a gunshot doesn't mean the gunshot hit--maybe it means you twisted your ankle getting out of the way. The same applies to a zat gun.