Reference: X compared to Y = possible Discrepancy?

[Paladino]

Here is a possibility.

SK: Elaine says that Justin got to her the day she stayed home sick from school, which she says is about 2 weeks before Justin sends "That Demon" (HWWB) after Harry.

GS

(click to show/hide)

From Harry's memory, the day Elaine stays home from school and the day that Justin summon HWWB, are in fact the exact same day. Harry says he only runs for about an hour. So unless Justin sent a different demon after Harry's fight with HWWB, or Elaine stayed home sick 2 weeks prior to the day Harry comes home early. We have a potential descrepency.

What do you all think?

I'd say that she stayed home sick at two ocasions. First as 2 weeks before HWWB, when she was really sick, and justin used this chance to enthrall her. And then 2 weeks after, when Justin was sure of his hold on her (she mentions in SK that after a time she stopped fighting), he had her pretend to be sick, so she could help him prepare Harry enthralling, once Harry is stronger and a lot more stuborn than Elaine, and this is when Harry come earlier.

Well, this is at least how, assuming that she is not lying, confused or someone time traveled to change it, I read this situation. It explains hwo she was not lying, and it works with Harry memory. Of course, she could also be evil and be lying to Harry.. I just don't think so personally.

[Ziggelly]

There's also the fact that he says, in SK, that:

"Elaine. We were … both of us were orphans. We got adopted by the same man when we were ten."

This was actually a pretty well-accepted fact, in my head, through the series. So there might be other references to it later on, but I wasn't able to find them anywhere.
And, yet, in GS he says:

I hadn’t really been interested in girls yet when I met Elaine. We’d both been twelve...

And, also, he's twelve in the Justin flashback later on, when he's doing a magic spell for the first time:

I built up the spell again, slowly, slowly, focusing on it more intently than on anything I’d ever done in my life. And I was nearly thirteen, so that was really saying something.

Plus, there's:

How old were Eb and Maggie Sr when they first manifested a talent?
Same age as Harry–around 12 or 13.

So that makes two potential backstory weirdness things in Summer Knight. If it had been the first or second book, I wouldn't have even blinked at this, really, but by the fourth he probably would've had at least the major details of Harry's backstory ironed out, especially since he was bringing Elaine back in that book, wouldn't you think?

[Lind]

Don't have the books in front of me but I am pretty sure that when Harry shot Corpsetaker/Lucio's body in Dead Beat it was to her face while the description of the event in Proven Guilty was Harry shooting her in the back of the head.

[mdodd]

Don't have the books in front of me but I am pretty sure that when Harry shot Corpsetaker/Lucio's body in Dead Beat it was to her face while the description of the event in Proven Guilty was Harry shooting her in the back of the head.

I am just re-reading DB and Harry says he shot her underneath her cheekbone and she didn't have time to release her Death Curse (then Morgan goes into beast mode and tries to change the number of limbs and heads on Harry's body).

I don't have access to PG.

[Ziggelly]

SK Chapter 11:I actually had a post that did exactly this, but it was purged and I never backed it up  .  I may recreate it.  The jist of it is that you need to either:

1) Assume that there were non-denarian goons at the Shedd.
2) Assume that the denarians brought "spare bodies" to the Shedd.

*Shrug.* I'll do it.

• Urumviel (who is killed by Harry)
• One that Kincaid kills - Varthiel/Ordiel/McKullen (1/5)
• Another one that Kincaid kills- Varthiel/Ordiel/McKullen (2/5)
• Another Kincaid kill - Varthiel/Ordiel/McKullen (3/5)
• One that Ivy took care of
• Shaggy-Feathers one that Kincaid kills (4/5)
• Obsidian statue one that Kincaid kills (5/5)
• One that Luccio killed (1/2)
• One that Luccio killed (2/2)
• One that Michael/Sanya killed (1/2)
• One that Michael/Sanya killed (2/2)
• Random drowned Denarian

Twelve bodies. Eleven coins. The rest of the scene completely ignores the coin that Ivy stamped her foot on after she turned it to ash (Harry just picks her up and runs, leaving it there, I guess), though, so it's not unlikely that Jim forgot about it, or didn't add that little part in until later. For argument's sake, I guess the drowned body might just have been a minion... because, really, how likely is it that one of the uber-tough-and-durable Denarians would be drowned to death? Seriously.

There would need to have only been eleven to make the coin number add up to thirty, so we know there's not an unaccounted for one:
+9 (There were nine coins with the church before Death Masks)
+4 (Ursiel, Saluriel, Lasciel, and Akariel)
+11 (killed at the aquarium)
+6 (on Demonreach: Deirdre, Rosanna, Tessa, Nick, Thorned Namshiel, and Magog)
... Unless one of the SmF Denarians got one of the coins safely in storage?
Meh. I dunno. It's probably not important, at any rate.

- Minor practitioner body-count in WN (AKA "the Skavis only got 1").
Not familar with it

There was a detailed thread on it a couple of days ago, specifically for you.

[Serack]

Ziggelly, you mind putting the kemmler stuff in a separate post so I can link to it on it's own?

[Ziggelly]

Certainly. Kemmler stuff, take two:

"He was best known for World War One... There were about a hundred and fifty years of engineering built into it, and he had his fingers into all kinds of pies. He vanished at the end of hostilities and didn't show up again until he started animating mass graves during
World War Two. Went on rampages out in Eastern Europe, where things were pretty much a nightmare even without his help. Nobody is sure how many people he killed... After what the guy did, the White Council hunted him down and wiped his dusty ass out in 1961... They killed him pretty good. A bunch of times. He'd shown up again after the Wardens had killed him early in the nineteenth century, so they were real careful the second time. And good riddance to the psychotic bastard."

Kemmler had fought the entire White Council in an all-out war. Twice. They killed him seven times over the course of both wars, but it didn’t take until number seven... [he] had apparently been killed for good sometime during World War II.

Those two accounts seem fairly different, don't you think? I mean, I wouldn't consider 1961 as being even close to "during" WW2, as has been pointed out. Also, the first quote seems to imply that he only came back from the dead once, and that they only tried to kill him twice, while the second explicitly says that it was seven times. Plus, I mean... WW1 and 2 would probably be more considered wars against general humanity, rather than just the Council, right?
_{The last one's probably me nitpicking the text to death. But whatever. I thought I'd include it anyway.}

[knnn]

*Shrug.* I'll do it.

• Urumviel (who is killed by Harry)
• One that Kincaid kills - Varthiel/Ordiel/McKullen (1/5)
• Another one that Kincaid kills- Varthiel/Ordiel/McKullen (2/5)
• Another Kincaid kill - Varthiel/Ordiel/McKullen (3/5)
• One that Ivy took care of
• Shaggy-Feathers one that Kincaid kills (4/5)
• Obsidian statue one that Kincaid kills (5/5)
• One that Luccio killed (1/2)
• One that Luccio killed (2/2)
• One that Michael/Sanya killed (1/2)
• One that Michael/Sanya killed (2/2)
• Random drowned Denarian

Twelve bodies. Eleven coins. The rest of the scene completely ignores the coin that Ivy stamped her foot on after she turned it to ash (Harry just picks her up and runs, leaving it there, I guess), though, so it's not unlikely that Jim forgot about it, or didn't add that little part in until later. For argument's sake, I guess the drowned body might just have been a minion... because, really, how likely is it that one of the uber-tough-and-durable Denarians would be drowned to death? Seriously.

Thanks!

As I recall, the issue is even worse if you assume that first guys Kincaid snipes (on screen) are not Varthiel/Ordiel/McKullen.  The bodies are right there in front of Tessa, so it seems weird they'd feel the need to point it out.

Also, there's the revealing "Varthiel and Ordiel are down and McKullen is dead".   Either McKullen is a "dangerous denarian" (hence using the host name), or that's the name of the goon.

Finally, there's that weird thing about Michael knowing a-priori how many denarians are dead, despite the fact he has the wrong number of bodies and coins.  I suppose you could explain that one using "the boss said so".

There was a detailed thread on it a couple of days ago, specifically for you.

That was me.  Thanks for linking it.

[Ziggelly]

Thanks!

As I recall, the issue is even worse if you assume that first guys Kincaid snipes (on screen) are not Varthiel/Ordiel/McKullen.  The bodies are right there in front of Tessa, so it seems weird they'd feel the need to point it out.

Also, there's the revealing "Varthiel and Ordiel are down and McKullen is dead".   Either McKullen is a "dangerous denarian" (hence using the host name), or that's the name of the goon.

Finally, there's that weird thing about Michael knowing a-priori how many denarians are dead, despite the fact he has the wrong number of bodies and coins.  I suppose you could explain that one using "the boss said so".

Oh, wow.
I didn't even look at the part of the scene where Harry adds the coin from the drowned guy and one of the Kincaid-killed-them guys, without altering the final coin-count at all.
Yeah, I'm not trying to rationalize this anymore. I'm just going to with my good friend Occam, throw my hands up in the air, and ask the Mighty Jim why he does this to me. 
He's so... not detail-oriented. It makes everything so stressful for those of us who make lists and are kinda OCD and tend to over-analyze wayyy too much. It's almost like he's just focusing on the story and plot and characters and silly things like that rather than the miniscule details that almost nobody actually ever catches until read-throughs or even really care about anyway because in all probability they completely lack any actual relevence.
*Sigh.*

[knnn]

I didn't even look at the part of the scene where Harry adds the coin from the drowned guy and one of the Kincaid-killed-them guys, without altering the final coin-count at all.

 

I don't know if I'd go as far as saying it's as bad as that.  Remember that the Denarians are specifically the guys Michael was designed to fight, so it's possible he either "sensed" their numbers before the fight (though this would beg the question of why he didn't warn Harry he was walking into a trap), or possibly he got divine info about number of denarian casualties after the battle.  It's not that far fetched; remember that he asks about Kincaid (knowing if Kincaid will survive seems less "mission oriented" than knowing how much of the opposition has been disabled). 

Still, I agree with you that there is a possible difficulty in the text.  That's the reason I brought it up for the discrepancy list in the first place.

[ImpishMortal]

Oh, wow.
I didn't even look at the part of the scene where Harry adds the coin from the drowned guy and one of the Kincaid-killed-them guys, without altering the final coin-count at all.
Yeah, I'm not trying to rationalize this anymore. I'm just going to with my good friend Occam, throw my hands up in the air, and ask the Mighty Jim why he does this to me. 
He's so... not detail-oriented. It makes everything so stressful for those of us who make lists and are kinda OCD and tend to over-analyze wayyy too much. It's almost like he's just focusing on the story and plot and characters and silly things like that rather than the miniscule details that almost nobody actually ever catches until read-throughs or even really care about anyway because in all probability they completely lack any actual relevence.
*Sigh.*

I feel you Ziggelly. It makes me paranoid to even try to come up with theories that may be plausible depending solely on whether or not a piece of info is an actual goof or an intentional discrepancy. Thus, Jim sows his tales as we reap epileptic trees.

[Duke Blue]

I don't know if this is a discrepancy or I just missed something but the talk of weird counting made me think of it so I thought I would bring it up.

In Dead Beat, when Mort does the red ink trick to show where necromancy has been used around the city, Harry clearly lists out seven locations.  Then both Mort and Harry say "six" (Harry then concludes that there are six Necromancers in town which I didn't get either but probably is a side issue).  Why did both Mort and Harry say six when there when seven locations were just pointed out on the map?  As I said, I don't know if it is a discrepancy or if I am just missing something but if I am just missing something please tell me because it is bugging the heck out of me.

[Paladino]

I don't know if this is a discrepancy or I just missed something but the talk of weird counting made me think of it so I thought I would bring it up.

In Dead Beat, when Mort does the red ink trick to show where necromancy has been used around the city, Harry clearly lists out seven locations.  Then both Mort and Harry say "six" (Harry then concludes that there are six Necromancers in town which I didn't get either but probably is a side issue).  Why did both Mort and Harry say six when there when seven locations were just pointed out on the map?  As I said, I don't know if it is a discrepancy or if I am just missing something but if I am just missing something please tell me because it is bugging the heck out of me.

Don't remember right now, but one of the locations was the greaveyard wasn't it? That would be Mavra. It explains Harry saying six, but not Morty..

[Ziggelly]

I put my finger beside one of the larger red circles. "This is the Forensic Institute. One of them created a zombie there earlier tonight."
Mort sat up and leaned forward over the map, his eyes glazed with fatigue. He pointed at another bloody dot. "That one. It's the Field Museum."
I traced my finger to another one. "This one is in a pretty tough neighborhood. I think it's an apartment building." I moved on to the next. "A cemetery. And what the hell, at O'Hare?"
Mort shook his head. "The ink's darker than the others. I think that means it's beneath the airport, in Undertown."
"Uh-huh," I said. "That makes sense. Two more. An alley down by Burnham Park, and a sidewalk on Wacker."
"Six," Mort said.
"Six," I agreed.

Yeah, I'd say that the cemetery one is Mavra. But there's no reason for them to get a count of six when there are seven places.

[Duke Blue]

It's also interesting because this meeting in DB is also where the Mort's haircut discrepancies arose that Serack mentioned earlier.  I bet someone could turn this into an awesome conspiracy theory.