Reference: X compared to Y = possible Discrepancy?

[Serack]

Ok, I am trying to do this reference topic carefully because even though Jim admits he is fallibly human, occasionaly when people point out instances of this, his fandom is rather enthusiastic in their defense of his work.

So since topics about individual possible Discrepancies show up around here rather cyclically, because the official FAQ version of this topic hasn't been updated in quite a while, and because I seem to enjoy making reference topics, I thought I would start working on this one.

In the spirit of respect for Jim, and his fans, if you contribute to this reference, please try to do so in a manor that does just that, and that acknoledges that Jim has been able to do a great job of finding creative, cohesive ways to get such discrepancies to work quite well within the world he has created.  (Here's an example)

Edit:  For an alternate explanation for any discrepancy you mind find, there is this video.  (Brought to my attention by groinkick)

PR: Harry is the “get back up” guy.
JB: He is. He is. And that was a very conscious choice in the beginning, too. I wanted a guy that I could beat up a lot. And it wasn't actually until about the fourth book in that a fan pointed out, “hey, you've done this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and he's taken all these injuries here. I'm a professional therapist, and he would take this much therapy to get back from this, and he would never recover from this..” and I'm like, “wow, you really have beaten him up a lot. You know, wizards must just be better at getting better than other people, I need to write that in. Hey, we'll tie that in with how long they live, and, okay, cool. That works. That's good.”
PR: I always think of that in terms of course correction. You get some feedback, or a Beta reader gives you...
JB: Absolutely.
PR: And then you're like, “oh, that's a really good point, I guess you can't have a million people living in a pre-industrial society, you know, everyone dies of dysentery.” So, how much of that do you tend to  engage in as the series goes on, because you have a story and a story and a story, whereas I tend to do a huge block of story, and then there's a three-year gap, how much course direction would you say you do  with the overall story in between books based on feedback?
JB: Considerable. I mean, when someone has a good point they have a good point, and I'm not a perfect person, so when someone will point something like that out, I'll go, “okay, how can I take this and how can I use it as part of the story, and either keep it the way it is and have a good reason for it to be that way, or else spin it, or fix it, or have somebody realize something new about the world that hasn't been brought out before. I mean, that's kind of the creative challenge is kind of “how to make this cooler  and better?” and not, “how do I let this be a big hole in my story somewhere?” How to make it stronger, instead of less.
PR: And I think one of the great strengths of your writing is the reasonableness of it. Because sometimes you can tell somebody's patching a plot-hole, and it's just like they're putting a poster over the hole in the wall, but when you present one of these explanations, it's so smooth, and it makes such good, rational sense, that it seems like you built it in from the very beginning.
JB: Yes! Oh, I did. All of it. Word for word, I've got it all laid out. On a scroll.

As for formatting, here is what I want to do.  Within this post I will make a list of the common "Discrepancies."  Eventually as this topic gets fleshed out, I want to make individual posts within the topic that explain the details in depth with lots of refrences and stuff, and have links embedded in the "List."  Your help building up those detailed posts will be much appreciated, and cited.

• Harry's age when he first used magic/got adopted by Justin
• Storm Front Time Warp
• Name change of Bianca's Assistant *
• Were Harry and Elaine adopted at 10 or 12?
• What acres and acres of Parking around Wrigley Field? (DM)*
• The case of the shrinking Wampire
• The repeated coat removal coat removal
• Magical Car rebranding*
• Magical Car rebranding V2.0
• Ramirez => Rodriguez typo
• Change in the details of Lasciel's Prison
• Resurection of the Carpenter Family Van*
• Molly ages too rapidly between Proven Guilty and Winter Knight
• Murphy's ability to brake into the Police force before 21*
• Troubles with the Nicklehead-count
• Ivy's Backstory
• Maggie the Eldest's ovaries*
• NN around Harry's apt. * (there could be Watsonian explanations for this)
• When did Mort actually go Full on Xavier?
• When exactly did Kemmler die?
• Apparent NN Gateway contradiction/discontinuity
• When did Harry's magic first manifest?
• Michael's medical training

* may need some references or other work

[Serack]

When did Mort actually go Full on Xavier?

In Ghost Story, we get a description of Mort and his home.  The thing is, although it matches up with many of the details that have been described in earlier books, it does it in a haphazard fashion that leaves some really odd gaps.

It was an odd home, for Chicago—a white stucco number with a red tile roof that looked like it had been transplanted from Southern California.

Mortimer Lindquist seemed to have finally given in to the inevitable. I’d seen him with a bad toupee, and with an even worse comb-over, but this was the first time I’d seen him sporting a full-on Charles Xavier. The unbroken shine of his pate looked a lot better than the partial coverage.  He’d lost weight, too, since the last I’d seen him. I mean, he wasn’t going to be modeling for Abercrombie & Fitch or anything, but he’d definitely dropped from self-destructively obese down to merely stout.

Now here are the descriptions from Dead Beat:

Mortimer Linquist had done pretty well for himself over the past couple years, and he'd moved out of the little california-import stucco ranch house he'd been in the last time I'd gone to visit him.  Now he was working out of a converted duplex in Bucktown.

He was short, twenty of thirty pounds overweight, and had given up trying to conceal his receding hairline in favor of shaving his scalp completely bald.

These differences are rather convoluted in how they mix and match the facts we knew about Mort, and what Harry knew about Mort before GS.  Also keep in mind that Harry had to write down the address to where he wanted to go at the beginning of GS, rather than just verbally saying "Take me to this person."

Finally, we have confirmation from a Beta that the Beta readers pointed out this discrepancy to Jim before it got to us.  This doesn't rule out that a genuine mistake was made and still ended up going to publishing anyways, and it doesn't rule out the idea that it wasn't intentional, and will be significant later either.

For now it looks suspiciously like a Discrepancy, and thus is noted here

This topic, started back when the sample chapters were being released for GS, is dedicated to this issue.

[knnn]

Thank you for doing this Serack.

Some others I am aware of that might be on the list (mainly minor, and possibly have other explanations):

- Murphy's P90 that fell into the lake gets found.
- Harry's fifth floor office is on the fourth floor.
- Molly's age jumps by 1.
- Missing "!" in Splattercon!!!.
- NN around Harry's apt.
- Kemmler takedown in '45 vs. '61
- Thomas' height (he's apparently shrinking).
- Not using full Name when binding Demonreach.
- 429B baker street (not sure if this counts as a discrepency).
- Confused denarian body count.
- Archive mother discrepancy.
- Minor practitioner body-count in WN (AKA "the Skavis only got 1").

[Serack]

Thank you for doing this Serack.

Some others I am aware of that might be on the list (mainly minor, and possibly have other explanations):

- Murphy's P90 that fell into the lake gets found.
I always thought she just got a new one.  Does it still have the engraved plate?

- Harry's fifth floor office is on the fourth floor.
Needs expounding

- Molly's age jumps by 1.
Not familiar with this, but it's likely to be dismissable. 

- Missing "!" in Splattercon!!!.
Really?  sounds nitpicky (If you haven't listened to Marster's narration of PG, you should just to hear him get disgusted with the exclimation points by the 3rd or 4th time saying them)

- NN around Harry's apt.
This one needs a major post.  Heck, maybe we will end up with a topic for it in the eventual "Archive"

- Kemmler takedown in '45 vs. '61
Hmmm, I don't know the details of this.  However Bob did say he was taken down multiple times, so the explenation must show that this doesn't explain it

- Thomas' height (he's apparently shrinking).
Covered already.  (The Case of the Shrinking Wampire)

- Not using full Name when binding Demonreach.
If you think it's significant write it out... I need convincing...

- 229B baker street (not sure if this counts as a discrepency).
huh?

- Confused denarian body count.
I would chalk this up to general confusion... meh, if someone thinks it's important than they should write it up

- Archive mother discrepancy.
Good one.  I'm sure I've done a thorough write up of this one, but I'd have to find it Edit:  Here we go

- Minor practitioner body-count in WN (AKA "the Skavis only got 1").
Not familar with it

[Serack]

Ivy's Backstory:

her [Ivy's] mother commited suicide irrc, does that mean that if she wouldn't have died, then ivy would have been
alive and her mother at the same time ?
wasn't it mentioned that when an archive is born, the previous one dies and powers/knowledge is passed on to the next generation ?

Yes and yes.  When Ivy was originaly introduced Jim intended for the character to be a 1 time deal however he liked how Harry's character reacted to her so much that he ended up bringing her back in a more important role and part of that involved a little retconning.  In DM Ivy explained that she obtained the Archive upon birth and that her mother upon passing it to her entered a vegitative state, the same as her mother before her and on down the line.  However, this story was changed in DM, and the new background story was provided by Luccio in chapter 46 (page 378 in my e-book).

The original origin story:

"How did you get this gig?"
"My mother passed it on to me," she replied.  "As I was born, just as she received it when she was born."

"And your mother lets a mercenary drive you around?"

"Certainly not.  My mother is dead, wizard."  She frowned.  "Not dead, technically.  But all that she knew and was came into me.  She becamse an empty cup.  A persistant vegatative state."  Her eyes grew a little wistful, distant.  "She's free of it.  But she certainly isn't alive in the most vital sense."

"I'm sorry," I said.

"I wouldn't know why.  I know my mother.  And all before her."  She put a finger to her temple.  "It's all in here."

The retconned origin story:

"Normally, an Archive would have her own lifetime of experience to insulate her against all these other emotions and memories, a baseline to constrast against them."

I suddenly got it.  "But Ivy doesn't."

"Ivy doesn't," Luccio agreed.  "Her grandmother was killed in a freak accident, an automobile crash, I belive.  Her mother was a seventeen-year-old girl who was in love, and pregnant.  She hated her mother for dying and cursing her to carry the Archive when she wanted to have her own live-and she hated the child fo rhaving a lifetime of freedom ahead of her.  Ivy's mother killed herself rather than carry the Archive."

I started feeling a little sick.  "And Ivy knows it."

"She does.  Knows it, feels it.  She was born knowing exactly what her mother thought and felt about her."

"How could you know this about her..." I frowned, thinking.  Then said, "Kincaid.  The girl was in love with Kincaid."

"No," Luccio said.  "But Kincaid was working for Ivy's grandmother at the time, and the girl confided in him."

Here are some pertinant WoJ's on Ivy to throw in the mix.

Ivy (And Kincaid)
2009 Kansas City Q&A @51:20
Where did you get the idea for the Archive?
I knew I wanted to do "creepy little girl."  Because creepy little girls are a great character.  But then after I figured out what her powers were and how she would behave, I had to start working out the extended consequences of what that character would be like.  Originally she was supposed to be "creepy little girl, ok but why does she get any respect.  Ok she knows all this stuff, now she's creepy little girl who knows everything.  That's bad.  That's scary. 
But then she was another character that was only supposed to show up for one book, but wound up being interesting enough and having enough of a vibe with Harry and his latent father impulses to be worth showing up again and again.  So she's another one of those characters that sort of out grew what I originally cast her for.
2011 Marscon
Uh, could Ivy…does the Archive read digital?  Or is it only print?
Does the archive read digital, or is it only print?  No, she gets it all. Uh, and…yeah, and nobody ever planned for the amount of information that has actually shown up in the past 20 years or so. Uh, so yeah, that’s not a good thing to be throwing on the…the little girl, don’t-have-any-insulation-against-everything-Archive. (Jim chuckles evilly) Like, totally bad timing for that, haha. Uh, I think Ivy would punch me in the nose too

[snip]Kincaid stuff[/snip]

Does Ivy know everything Bob knows?
Man, talk about an obscure question. Probably the vast majority of it, yeah, although Ivy's more oriented toward things that are happening on Earth, and Bob has sources all over. [messing with the microphone] So, I would say it's more an issue of, they have different fields of information available to them. They don't, like, have a comparable database.
So Ivy doesn't get what Bob gets as soon as Bob gets it?
No

[knnn]

- Harry's fifth floor office is on the fourth floor.
Needs expounding

Probably much dismissable (esp. since the building is toast), but may also be a clue toward a DB-GS world switch:

Storm Front:

I rarely use the elevator, even though I'm on the fifth floor.

Changes:

“The explosives are on the fourth floor,” Martin said calmly, “placed all around your office.”

- Kemmler takedown in '45 vs. '61
Hmmm, I don't know the details of this.  However Bob did say he was taken down multiple times, so the explenation must show that this doesn't explain it

It recently came up again:

GS Chapter 42:

Evil Bob had been the part of Bob the Skull, which had been in the service of this jerk named Kemmler, who had apparently been killed for good sometime during World War II.

DB Chapter 2:

"the White Council hunted him down and wiped out his dusty ass in 1961"

- 429B baker street (not sure if this counts as a discrepency).
huh?

Not really important, but the decor in Ronald's apartment is described as:

SK Chapter 11:

"imported from 429-B Baker Street."

- Confused denarian body count.
I would chalk this up to general confusion... meh, if someone thinks it's important than they should write it up

I actually had a post that did exactly this, but it was purged and I never backed it up  .  I may recreate it.  The jist of it is that you need to either:

1) Assume that there were non-denarian goons at the Shedd.
2) Assume that the denarians brought "spare bodies" to the Shedd.

- Minor practitioner body-count in WN (AKA "the Skavis only got 1").
Not familar with it

I may write it up again, but it's the same concept -- if you take the total amount of practitioners killed or missing in Chicago and you subtract the ones Thomas saved and the ones obviously killed by Madrigal/Vitto, you pretty much come up empty.  Not that important.

[Serack]

Is "imported from 429-B Baker Street."

Supposed to be a Sherlock Holmes reference?

If so, you might have hosed your correction a little, since apparently it was 221B Baker Street (using googlefoo)

[Mr. Death]

The fourth/fifth floor may be an American/Foreign discrepancy. In much of the world, what Americans call the first floor is the ground floor, the second floor is called the first floor, etc., if I'm not mistaken. So what Harry might call the fifth floor, someone from Europe or South America might instinctively call it the fourth.

[knnn]

Is "imported from 429-B Baker Street."

Supposed to be a Sherlock Holmes reference?

If so, you might have hosed your correction a little, since apparently it was 221B Baker Street (using googlefoo)

Exactly!  so the fact that Harry says 429-B is either a clue, a typo, or whatnot.

Edit:  Oh, you meant that my correction was mistaken.  Actually, it's the quote that was wrong.  Fixed it.

[laura118b]

Molly's age can be explained by the fact that some of the early books got published in a different order than written.  Priscellie covered this at one time IIRC.

[knnn]

Molly's age can be explained by the fact that some of the early books got published in a different order than written.  Priscellie covered this at one time IIRC.

Yeah, I believe it's covered somewhere in the timeline thread.

[Ms Duck]

The in book explanation fo how kemller's ritual works vs the woj description came up recently.

[KurtinStGeorge]

In Dead Beat, Li Xian drives "an old Chrysler" at the Wardens and the children they were protecting from the undead.  Then Harry has Sue leap on the car, "Sue landed one clawed foot on the street, and the other came down squarely on the Caddy's hood..."

Mopar fans and Cadillac enthusiasts (I used to own a 59 Coupe de Ville myself) were not amused by the mixing up of Chrysler and GM cars.   

[Shecky]

Can't say more than this, but I will say two things:

1) Some measurements are given from Harry's perspective - i.e., an estimate.
2) Some things are, bluntly put, deliberately not as they seem, but the agency has not been revealed.

But overall, HELLUVA thread and compilation of issues. Well done, you guys.

[Cruness]

Here is a possibility.

SK: Elaine says that Justin got to her the day she stayed home sick from school, which she says is about 2 weeks before Justin sends "That Demon" (HWWB) after Harry.

GS

(click to show/hide)

From Harry's memory, the day Elaine stays home from school and the day that Justin summon HWWB, are in fact the exact same day. Harry says he only runs for about an hour. So unless Justin sent a different demon after Harry's fight with HWWB, or Elaine stayed home sick 2 weeks prior to the day Harry comes home early. We have a potential descrepency.

What do you all think?