A Badelynge of Quackiness [spoilers for every book Jim ever wrote or ever will]

[Ms Duck]

Duck, the "Mab" theories are all dependent on her being neigh omnipotent. It just seems like such a cop out. How could she know that steering Harry toward Demonreach wouldn't have gotten him killed? She manipulates things at the very beginning, but it seems as though nothing ever goes wrong for her (despite the summer fire thing). She's basically all knowing.

It's just...it's bad writing. And I hate to say that, because I love Jim's work. But an omnipotent being that guides the story is, well, bad writing.

Really, can anyone here confidentially say that mab isn't all knowing? She freaking knows what's going to happen. I swear, that's the biggest reason why I agree with your Time Travel theory, Duck. Because it's the only way Mab's actions are evenly remotely believable - She's seen it all before. Any other excuse requires Mab to be able to see events 20 steps ahead of everyone else, which basically makes her infallible.

So, assuming Jim is a fantastic writer, which is a safe assumption, then we can also assume that Mab has knowledge of the future. Which means Mab can either use a crystal ball, or she's traveled back in time after experiencing these events once, and is using her knowledge of the "future" to skilfully manipulate people/events.

Assuming she doesn't have a crystal ball, the question becomes, "Who is mab?". Welp, she has power over illusion and fear, she's a woman, and she has an interest in Harry (The stone table suggests a very intimate interest in harry). Only one candidate comes to mind: Molly.

Thanks

but what if shes not omnipotent, but just really really sneaky?

Why did Kinkaid shoot Harry in the chest, not the head?( He allways aims for the head.)
Why did the shot take place on the lake, where Mab was waiting?
On the lake where Demon Reach can be found?
Mab can subtly change reality, within her domain
So can her opnenets, most likely
Precognition means making small changes, subtle things
Like nudging a bullet just a little bit..

[mithrandirthewhite]

Would the bullet been lead or jacketed for armor peircing to be able to go through the boat? im asking because I dont think fae can influence iron, so that wouldnt an iron covered bullet be unaffected? (Or are the jackets made of copper?)

[Ms Duck]

Would the bullet been lead or jacketed for armor peircing to be able to go through the boat? im asking because I dont think fae can influence iron, so that wouldnt an iron covered bullet be unaffected? (Or are the jackets made of copper?)

this was argued out in another thread last year, in which a lot of people who know a LOT more about guns than I do proceeded to get very testy back and forth. Ergo, my offical answer is 'enhhh maybe?'

 

[MartyTaylor]

Along the last couple lines. Just like Harry didn't aim at the Scarecrow he couldn't hit but aimed at the ground beneath him (and Carlos did the same thing in the depths) Mab could manipulate the Air around the bullet's trajectory, so its composition becomes irrelevant.

As to Mab's precognitive ability; she's not the only player in the series that has it. Odin was well known for it, or at least obtained it through the crows depending on which version of the myth you have. Any number of the Mab's (and Harry's adversaries would have sufficient cognitive ability to have some measure of it to one degree or another. For that matter, we've been told and shown where it has been used by unnamed adversary in Changes. Shiro used it to save Harry.

Precognition is a power and tool used by mulitple players in the Dresden verse. The ones that determine how to use it to their greatest adavantage at the most strategically valuable times will be the ones to benefit the most from it. Mab's possession of the ability is not unique, so it doesn't unbalance the story. Even more, she doesn't use it in Harry's best interest, at least not completely.

[peregrine]

Would the bullet been lead or jacketed for armor peircing to be able to go through the boat? im asking because I dont think fae can influence iron, so that wouldnt an iron covered bullet be unaffected? (Or are the jackets made of copper?)

You can get bullets jacketed with steel, but usually they're covered with some copper alloy.  But then again, if you know you're going to be shooting someone who is fae empowered, you might pick steel.  Odds are a bullet fired by Kinkaid from a long distance would probably be jacketed, but it can go either way.

And, if Mab wanted to do some shenanigans with the bullet, she needs not to have affected it, she could put an illusion on Kinkaid to change his aim, or create a channel through the air to encourage the path of the bullet, and plan for the air to remain dense or not as needed for long enough even after the possible steel disrupts her magic...

It's basically impossible to tell one way or the other.

[Zuriel]

Just sticking my nose in to say thank you, Ms. Duck, for taking the time to compile a very interesting and thought-provoking list of possibilities and theories that I will mull over while I'm re-reading DF.  I'm lucky to have the time to read, let alone analyze every tidbit of information contained in these books.

Therefore, I bow to you, oh most wise and resourceful Ms. Duck, for providing me with enough food for thought to sustain me while I'm reading.

And I don't mean to dismiss others' POV, as you all are here just as well, contributing, for which I am also thankful.

Please continue...I'm reaping the benefit of your time and effort.   

[derrick]

You can get bullets jacketed with steel, but usually they're covered with some copper alloy.  But then again, if you know you're going to be shooting someone who is fae empowered, you might pick steel.  Odds are a bullet fired by Kinkaid from a long distance would probably be jacketed, but it can go either way.

And, if Mab wanted to do some shenanigans with the bullet, she needs not to have affected it, she could put an illusion on Kinkaid to change his aim, or create a channel through the air to encourage the path of the bullet, and plan for the air to remain dense or not as needed for long enough even after the possible steel disrupts her magic...

It's basically impossible to tell one way or the other.

I'm not getting into the bullet's composition...again.  But instead of affecting the bullet, Mab only needed to rock the boat just a little, or something else to make Harry stumble just a bit.  Much easier than manipulating an object moving 1000FPS+ or the air in the path of it's trajectory.

FWIW, I'm not totally sold on Mab being Harry's puppetmaster.  That's not to say she doesn't manipulate him every chance she gets or that she's rarely successful in doing so.  Even so, it's an interesting theory.

[SAZ]

Of all of the Duck’s theories, I think the Black Court and the Lovecraft alliance ones are the mostly likely to have parts that are correct.

Ms Duck, you know if Molly = Mab, you are going to have a lot of folks who will want your autograph on the DF book that reveals it. You might want to invest in an auto signer or a rubber stamp to avoid a repetitive stress injury.

[Ms Duck]

Just sticking my nose in to say thank you, Ms. Duck, for taking the time to compile a very interesting and thought-provoking list of possibilities and theories that I will mull over while I'm re-reading DF.  I'm lucky to have the time to read, let alone analyze every tidbit of information contained in these books.

Therefore, I bow to you, oh most wise and resourceful Ms. Duck, for providing me with enough food for thought to sustain me while I'm reading.

And I don't mean to dismiss others' POV, as you all are here just as well, contributing, for which I am also thankful.

Please continue...I'm reaping the benefit of your time and effort.   

Thank you ! (Hugs) 

Of all of the Duck’s theories, I think the Black Court and the Lovecraft alliance ones are the mostly likely to have parts that are correct.

Ms Duck, you know if Molly = Mab, you are going to have a lot of folks who will want your autograph on the DF book that reveals it. You might want to invest in an auto signer or a rubber stamp to avoid a repetitive stress injury.

actually, I agree about the lovecraft. Its a fave. As to Molly/Mab, it occured to me a while back I coudl have the cart before the horse there- combine mab/lc and molly/arthur and you ge6t the idea that Mab is rasiing Molly to be her succesor- or Maeve's. she has forseen that she will die soon (the BAT comment), and is planning for Molly to take either her place or Maeves... thus Molly becomes Mab, in another way of being.

[Cozarkian]

Turn Coat and the two clue bats:
The first clue is on page 211   
After Thomas is taken, Harry searched for him magically, but never uses or mentions Little Chicago. (although damaged in WN, it is fixed by this time, note SJ).. all he describes is: .   
  Now it is important that not only does he not mention it ( he does in every other book, whether he uses it or not, he is very proud of it.) but Bob does not mention it either.    And almost the very first thing he mentions in the books is his splitting blinding headache.The second clue is on page 215   
  Mouse come over to talk to him, gets Harrys attention, and then when Harry bends down, harry gets a second blinding headache, and loses his train of thought. This is important because it is shown later that Mouse could have found Thomas, and he certainly believed he was a match for shaggy, or at least that harry and he together were.So someone covered the table, removed the memory from Harry and Bob, and gave Harry a headache just in time to prevent him from rescuing Thomas. 

There is a flaw with this portion of the theory that I haven't seen raised in our other discussions.

Textual evidence makes it clear Harry wouldn't have needed LC to find Thomas. Re-read PG when he is trying to find Molly. He explains to Murphy that the reason he needs LC is because Molly is no longer in Chicago and he is trying to find where she was, not where she is. Harry's normal array of tracking spells should have been quite sufficient for finding Thomas. They also would have been more effective than LC, because they could search beyond the borders of LC.

Now, it is still extremely strange that Harry doesn't mention LC (even if Harry didn't think LC would ultimately help, he still would have tried), but the above could explain why Bob doesn't mention LC (he wouldn't suggest Harrry use LC if it wasn't going to help). Thus, this argument simply points to some other motivation for preventing Harry from using LC other than preventing him from finding Thomas.

[Ms Duck]

There is a flaw with this portion of the theory that I haven't seen raised in our other discussions.

Textual evidence makes it clear Harry wouldn't have needed LC to find Thomas. Re-read PG when he is trying to find Molly. He explains to Murphy that the reason he needs LC is because Molly is no longer in Chicago and he is trying to find where she was, not where she is. Harry's normal array of tracking spells should have been quite sufficient for finding Thomas. They also would have been more effective than LC, because they could search beyond the borders of LC.

Now, it is still extremely strange that Harry doesn't mention LC (even if Harry didn't think LC would ultimately help, he still would have tried), but the above could explain why Bob doesn't mention LC (he wouldn't suggest Harrry use LC if it wasn't going to help). Thus, this argument simply points to some other motivation for preventing Harry from using LC other than preventing him from finding Thomas.

Um, beg pardon, but Harry tried all those spells. they were being blocked by Shaggy. LC might have worked , as it was a demi artifact designed right for that purpose, that Shaggy did not know about.

Two hours and a half a dozen attempted tracking spells later, i snarled and slapped a stack of notepads off the corner of the table.. "the parent to child bond is much more sympathetic than that shared by siblings"..

etc, etc.. TC , starting pg 211

Shaggy was blocking all the stadard spells 

[Cozarkian]

Um, beg pardon, but Harry tried all those spells. they were being blocked by Shaggy. LC might have worked , as it was a demi artifact designed right for that purpose, that Shaggy did not know about.

etc, etc.. TC , starting pg 211

Shaggy was blocking all the stadard spells 

I agree Harry would have at least tried LC, because he was desperate (it is very suspicious Harry doesn't at least mention LC). But, I think less-emotionally involved individuals, like Bob and Mab recognize that LC would not have helped find Thomas.

However, from the discussion in PG, I don't think LC was designed in a manner which, under the specific circumstances of TC, would help find Thomas. As evidenced by the text you quoted, Harry's problem was that the sibling link wasn't strong enough. Using LC would still have been dependent on a sibling link, so it too, would have been insufficient. Bob would recognize that and would therefore not recommend using LC, because Bob would understand that LC would not succeed where the normal tracking spells woufailed.

[Cozarkian]

any chance of this getting stickied when it's done? I had made one like this a few years back, but its toast and so is msot of the stuff on it. Must do more re writing..lol
Thank You !

I'd support you on that. Even when I disagree, your theories are always well-thought out and drive a lot of conversation.

[Second Aristh]

any chance of this getting stickied when it's done? I had made one like this a few years back, but its toast and so is msot of the stuff on it.

Yeah, I'm not sure what kinds of criteria are involved in determining if a thread is sticky quality, but it would be nice to have a place for the new kids to catch up with the rest of the class.  I think a lot of people would be a little lost around here without knowing at least the outlines of these theories.  Perhaps having a thread that lists all of the long, thoroughly researched, well-formatted theories as a reference.  I'm a fan of the curator plan that was proposed a few weeks ago.

Nice work Lady Duck!

[Ms Duck]

Thank you both