Thomas in Small Favor

[eiredrake]

Since my commute blows goats I typically listen to audio books or podcasts on the way. Recently I've been listening to the DF series and I'm on Small Favor now and since I've been playing the RPG I've been taking notice to things a bit more.

For example I could have sworn in the last book that Harry got blasted and lamented not having his shield bracelet but then in the very next paragraph he shook out his shield bracelet. (No I don't have a citation for what page this happened on so I can't prove it).

But yesterday I was listening when Harry & Thomas went into Marcone's Gym/Brothel and some woman flitted up to them. Harry asked to see Ms. Demeter and the girl wasn't cooperating so he had Thomas give a 'demonstration'. Thomas grabbed two dumbells and basically twisted the bars together to form an 'X'.

That said I got curious so I fired up Our Story and went to look at Thomas's stats. Thomas doesn't have the Might skill (or at least I didn't see it) so that'd give him a Might skill of 0, right? But he has Inhuman Strength.

But the description of inhuman strength says basically 4 things:

You are able to lift more and hit harder than the average human can due to your supernatural heritage.

Improved lifting: +3 to might score to lift or break things.
Bruising Strength: +1 to might for grappling. Can inflict a 2 stress hit during a grapple
Superior Strength: When using your might to modify another skill it provides +1 regardless of your actual might skill.
Hammer Blows: Attacks depending on muscular force do +2 damage on a successful hit.

Nothing on his sheet would seem to indicate that he has the ability to do that and the power itself just seems to make you a bit stronger than a normal human. I'm willing to bet that bending aluminum or steel bars into pretzel forms probably is beyond the average human. I'm willing to bet its probably beyond the modern day equivalent of Schwarzenegger in his heyday.


So my question is... how the hell did Thomas pull off the Dumbell-Pretzel thing?

or was this just artistic license or some sort of 'for effect' power?

[Haru]

I think the +3 from inhuman strength should be enough to put up the aspect "aluminum pretzel" (maybe with a lucky roll) and Harry can then tag that on his intimidation roll to convince Billy (was that the girls name?) to let him go see her superior. At least that's how I would interpret the scene, I'm sure others could see a number of different ways to model it.

[EdgeOfDreams]

He could have temporarily drawn on his vampiric nature and hunger more deeply than usual to pull it off, which costs him in terms of self-control and being hungry later.

In other words, he spent a fate point to invoke an aspect related to his powers. 3 from Inhuman Strength + 2 from a Fate Point + 1 or more from a lucky roll could definitely add up to enough.

[Becq]

I agree with the OP in that the Thomas presented in the DFRPG writeup could not have casually performed the feat in the novel, under the DFRPG rules.  However, I think that this illustrates a weakness in the rules -- specifically, I've never liked the 'Might' skill.  In a game system in which attributes like 'dexterity' and 'wisdom' are thrown out the window and aspects shifted in to serve a similar role (among other things), why would brute strength be turned into a skill?  Makes no sense to me.  If you simply eliminate Might from the equation, then you get that Thomas has +3 shifts for 'breaking things' over a normal human, which would compare favorably to a very strong man who would gain +2 shifts only when spending a Fate point.  And Thomas could invoke his High Concept for an additional +2, which puts him at +3 shifts beyond the strong man's potential.

Or at least, that's how I'd be tempted to interpret it.

[EdgeOfDreams]

Why would brute strength be turned into a skill?

I'd argue that Might makes sense as a skill because...

* Some people can lift/bend/break things better than others
* Some people are naturally good at it
* You can get better at it with training and practice (both by building your muscles and by learning how best to apply your strength)
* No other skill covers the same trappings
* The ability (or lack thereof) to lift/bend/break things is at least sometimes of narrative importance in the kinds of stories the game is based on

To put it another way, if Might is not a valid skill, then you'd have to call Endurance, Discipline, and Conviction into question as well, at the very least. All four of those don't sound like something we'd call a 'skill' in common English, but they certainly work as "Skills" in the context of DFRPG.

[ways and means]

Personally I would prefer the strands of fate attribute system but that is another debate.

[Mr. Death]

* Some people can lift/bend/break things better than others
* Some people are naturally good at it
* You can get better at it with training and practice (both by building your muscles and by learning how best to apply your strength)

This. It's totally plausible, to me, that you could have a bodybuilder with Average or Fair Might--because while he's got a mountain of muscles, he doesn't have the technique to actually lift and break things efficiently.

[Sanctaphrax]

Maybe he rolled well.

Maybe the GM was letting him narrate freely since it wasn't important.

Maybe his OW stats are inaccurate.

Regardless, +3 Might is actually quite impressive. Most people are Good at whatever they do for a living.

PS: Skills in DFRPG aren't actually skills. Owning stuff isn't a skill either, but Resources is on the list.

[Mr. Death]

Maybe he happened to pick up a really, really cheap set of dumbbells.

[fantazero]

tell Jim to stat his characters better before writing his stories lol

[Tallyrand]

It's also worth noting that the stats in the book seem to be where the characters are at the beginning of Storm Front (Harry's explicitly, and everyone else seem to be on a scale with him) so as of Small Favor he has 5 more refresh and 9 more skill points that aren't listed.  Also don't forget the ability to switch around skills once a sessionish, so it's reasonable to assume that he prepared a bit before going and bumped up his might.

[AstronaughtAndy]

I'm going to echo what a few others have said. Were I the DM in that instance, I would've let Thomas's player invoke his High Concept as a wampire and called it a day, since the scene wasnt really about Thomas bending dumbells.

Also, I get the impression that the OW stats are often incomplete/left for individual groups to fill in.

[Silverblaze]

I'm going to echo what a few others have said. Were I the DM in that instance, I would've let Thomas's player invoke his High Concept as a wampire and called it a day, since the scene wasnt really about Thomas bending dumbells.

Also, I get the impression that the OW stats are often incomplete/left for individual groups to fill in.

This mirrors my own thoughts on the matter.  It was for dramatic effect that helped get to the truly important scene.  Harry could have lit a cigar with his fire spells.  He could have pulled off some cantrip using spirit (akin to the scare spell Gandalf does in the LotR movies).  It was a means to an end.  In any case a Fate Point was likely spent to achieve said goal - thus generally allowing the plot to move right along.