The Catch Rewrite

[Sanctaphrax]

Okay, I have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm probably just being thick...but I seriously don't follow.

Fortunately, it doesn't matter much. This whole discussion was kind of beside the point, right?

I'd kinda like to update the list again sometime today or tomorrow. Here's my current plan, tell me if it's bad:

-Make Catch optional.
-Use Becq's cost scaling, with one extra level for Catches that will be bypassed really often.
-Allow Catches to be taken for Powers other than Toughness at GM's discretion.

The third bullet is there because I realized today that it'd be really easy to do and that I couldn't think of any real consequences.

[Mr. Death]

What he's saying is that 99% of the people who play this game--hell, probably literally everyone but the people who have directly contributed to this thread, and even then not all of them--will never even consider playing with whatever house rule results from this thread or the one about Physical Immunity.

The vast, vast, vast, etc. majority of players and GMs will just look at what's in the book, call it good, and gloss over the instances where there's some kind of hiccup. Because the book is universal, and the one thing that is really easy to point to and take with you.

You act like you're making some grand correction that's going to be a great boon to the players, but honestly? You could probably count on one hand, maybe two, the amount of people who'll actually use it with their groups.

[Silverblaze]

Okay, I have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm probably just being thick...but I seriously don't follow.

Fortunately, it doesn't matter much. This whole discussion was kind of beside the point, right?

I'd kinda like to update the list again sometime today or tomorrow. Here's my current plan, tell me if it's bad:

-Make Catch optional.
-Use Becq's cost scaling, with one extra level for Catches that will be bypassed really often.
-Allow Catches to be taken for Powers other than Toughness at GM's discretion.

The third bullet is there because I realized today that it'd be really easy to do and that I couldn't think of any real consequences.

Replying to bold in bold and underline in underline.

Yep.  I thought I was clear, but honestly who cares?

Sounds good to me.

Just ask if you need more feedback.

[Sanctaphrax]

@Silverblaze: Excellent.

@Mr Death: Believe me, I have no illusions about the amount of use that this stuff sees. But I don't see why that's relevant. Making things better is worthwhile for its own sake.

[Sanctaphrax]

Aight. Here's the new Catch.

THE CATCH [+varies]
Description: Your abilities are limited in some way.
Note: Suffering from the negative consequences of taking this Power will often, but not always, be a Compel.
Skills Affected: None.
Effects:
Limited Powers. Attach this Power to at least one other Power that you possess. Then, select a circumstance. Whenever that circumstance applies, you are treated as though you did not possess the attached abilities.
Rebate. This Power reduces the Refresh cost of the attached Powers. The percentage that the cost is reduced by depends upon how commonly the limitation on your Powers will cause problems for you. If it will rarely matter, reduce the cost by one-sixth. If it will cause problems from time to time, reduce the cost by one fourth. If it will be a frequent impediment, reduce the cost by half. And if it will prevent you from using your Powers except in unusual situations, reduce the cost by three fourths. At the GM's discretion, difficult-to-classify limitations might grant a rebate in between two of the suggested ones. Round all Refresh costs to the nearest positive integer.

What do y'all think of it?

I'm not happy with it. What the heck does "rarely" mean in this context? Well, I want it to mean "only a few times in the lifespan of the average game, it's a big deal when it shows up". But I'm not sure how to word that elegantly.

I'll take another poke at this later.

[Becq]

Looks familiar, though more generalized...

A nitpick: refresh costs are always expressed as negative numbers, so you might want to reword your rounding rules (or else technically, all powers will become +1 powers, and all characters will have all of them -- and small mountains of Fate points after each refresh).  Also, you'll need to deal with rounding of halves (ie, -0.5, -1.5, etc: round to more expensive, or round to less expensive?)

As to the vagueness in the frequency descriptions, if this was in the DFRPG book, I could see this being handled by margin comments:

Wait the heck does "rarely" mean in this context?
Well, I want it to mean "only a few times in the lifespan of the average game, it's a big deal when it shows up."

Possibly with a bit more detail for each of the rarities, of course.  Feel free to raid my post (linked at the top of this post) for possible starting points.

[Becq]

One other thing:

Folks have brought up the fact that the player (or even the GM) might not be able to accurately project how 'rare' a given Catch is (because who knows where the campaign might take you?).  One way to address this might be to simply adjust the value of the Catch as the campaign progresses.  You might cost out Catch:Fire one way when you start up the campaign, then adjust it significantly when the campaign veers off into the Elemental Plane O' Hot Stuff.

[Sanctaphrax]

Looks familiar, though more generalized...

Yep.

Frankly, I didn't think I could do better than you already had.

A nitpick: refresh costs are always expressed as negative numbers, so you might want to reword your rounding rules (or else technically, all powers will become +1 powers, and all characters will have all of them -- and small mountains of Fate points after each refresh).  Also, you'll need to deal with rounding of halves (ie, -0.5, -1.5, etc: round to more expensive, or round to less expensive?)

Herp derp.

As to the vagueness in the frequency descriptions, if this was in the DFRPG book, I could see this being handled by margin comments:Possibly with a bit more detail for each of the rarities, of course.  Feel free to raid my post (linked at the top of this post) for possible starting points.

Interesting idea...but I don't have margins. Maybe I could add to the Note section.

One other thing:

Folks have brought up the fact that the player (or even the GM) might not be able to accurately project how 'rare' a given Catch is (because who knows where the campaign might take you?).  One way to address this might be to simply adjust the value of the Catch as the campaign progresses.  You might cost out Catch:Fire one way when you start up the campaign, then adjust it significantly when the campaign veers off into the Elemental Plane O' Hot Stuff.

I'd prefer to kludge that with Compels, but I think that's mostly my playstyle talking. I'll add a note warning about the problem and suggesting solutions.

[Silverblaze]

Herp derp.

Unsure of what that was supposed to mean.  I assume it was derogatory?

[Sanctaphrax]

It indicates something stupid being done.

In this case, by me.

[Silverblaze]

Oh.  I see, sorry for my ignorance in any case.

[Sanctaphrax]

It can also mean that someone else is doing something stupid. So reading it as an attack on Becq is actually reasonable, though I didn't intend it that way.

[Sanctaphrax]

THE CATCH [+varies]
Description: Your abilities are limited in some way.
Note: Suffering from the negative consequences of taking this Power will often, but not always, be a Compel. If the importance of this Power changes during play, it might be necessary to change its cost or compensate with Compels.
Skills Affected: None.
Effects:
Limited Powers. Attach this Power to at least one other Power that you possess. Then, select a circumstance. Whenever that circumstance applies, you are treated as though you did not possess the attached abilities.
Rebate. This Power reduces the Refresh cost of the attached Powers. The percentage that the cost is reduced by depends upon how commonly the limitation on your Powers will cause problems for you. If it will matter rarely (perhaps once every 6 sessions or so), reduce the cost by one-sixth. If it will cause problems from time to time (in some, but not all, sessions), reduce the cost by one fourth. If it will be a frequent impediment (once a session on average), reduce the cost by half. And if it will prevent you from using your Powers except in unusual situations (no more than once a session on average), reduce the cost by three fourths. At the GM's discretion, difficult-to-classify limitations might grant a rebate in between two of the suggested ones. Decimal costs should be rounded to the nearest integer, with GMs rounding halves based on what cost seems more appropriate.

Blag. Not much of an improvement. Feedback would be appreciated, I could use some help with the next rewrite.