A Monarchy done right?

[Quantus]

So this is something Ive been kicking around for a while.  I want to make a Monarchy that works for the long haul, one that has checks and balances to avoid the typical pitfalls.  I like the monarchy idea in the sense that a single person who is trained and molded from birth to be a Leader could potentially be far better prepared to actually Lead a nation than any ladder climbing elected official you could find. 

I have a basic Medieval fantasy setting, high magic (ie. its common enough to be used in everyday life, with the occasional significant Artifact).  The MC is a crown prince, heir to the throne, and is about to set out on a traditional Pilgrimage to gain training in each of the Six and One Circles (6 schools of magic, plus those that master the Body ie. martial arts).  This is supposed to determine which school he is most suited to learn, as well as theoretically grant him insight and exposure into the People he will one day rule.  Political power is feudal, built around a few Major Houses and many more Minor Houses.  Each school is organized into its own Guild (with its own internal structure) but each has single Leader that is considered the most powerful of that school. 

So how would you balance a Monarchy to prevent future corruption?


I figure the three archetypal pitfalls are:
a) a Tyrant King, one who loves the Power for Itself and ignores the Responsibility
b) a Puppet King, one who bows to political pressures, or parrots the orders of another interest rather than Leading in his own right
c) a Reluctant King, one who has been made king against his will

Some thoughts Ive had so far:
A Constitution:  a charter document/treaty that sets up the framework.  This is what establishes the Rule of Law in the land.  But there needs to be some binding reason for all the houses to play by the rules.  Expecting the houses to keep each other in line only lasts until enough band together against it. A past Tragedy only lasts as long as the memory is fresh.   A Common Enemy could work. 

Trials:   The idea is that Heredity is not enough, a future King must prove himself powerful enough in one of the Circles to defend the Land. I figure each of the Major Houses will be able to put forward a Candidate as well as the Prime candidate chosen by the Current King.  The King's Heir would get priority, and the others would be considered if he fails the Trials.  Or maybe he has to defeat them all as one of the trials, to prove directly that they are the most powerful?

Training:  I had thought of adding a Secret Society whose duty is to train and prepare the candidates, but they would need to be totally devoted to their Duty of preparing Leaders.  They'd need to have absolutely no personal ambitions, or be innately incapable of taking power.  Otherwise they could eventually grasp for power themselves and become the worst Puppet-masters.  Perhaps an intelligent artifact or spirit guide of some kind?

[MClark]

Shucks, where to start? This is the sort of thread that could descend (or ascend if you like that sort of thing) into long arguments about history and theory of government.

1. Monarchys don't have a good track record of governance. Most of the decent places to live now a days are reasonably functional republics of some type. It seems kings need some check on their power, which tends to become a parliament of some kind.

2. A written constitution is one way to go, but you have to have people that really believe in it eg a Washington that steps down after two terms. Jefferson, Adams etc had a sense they were making history ("OMG, we're doing all the stuff Locke, Rousseau, Hutcheson talked about. We better not frell it up!") I think other countries tried a written constitution after the founding of the USA and it didn't work out - presidents seized power for life, got deposed, another president seized power for life etc.

3. Another way might be a sort of meandering system of customs, each sort of created in response to a previous crisis. The tryanny of King John caused the Magna Carta. The 100 years war and constant heavy taxation gave parliament the right to tax. (not sure exactly about that one). and so on. And sometimes its what people thought about the custom that mattered, eg its the legal interpretion of the Magna Carta that matters, not actually whats written in the document.

So I guess, in terms of believability:
1. this is our system and we are committed to making it work.
2. revered heroes that lived by the system.
3. it may not be perfect, but its better than civil war.
4. despots don't stay benevolent, so system to block the king's power, eg parliament or council of Houses, or something. 

Trainers - maybe not a secret society, but members of a minority with little power, eg Buddhists in India or  Jews in medieval europe. Maybe the member are eunuchs or they live by rigid ascetism - no meat, no sex, no drinking, etc.

[Quantus]

Shucks, where to start? This is the sort of thread that could descend (or ascend if you like that sort of thing) into long arguments about history and theory of government.

1. Monarchys don't have a good track record of governance. Most of the decent places to live now a days are reasonably functional republics of some type. It seems kings need some check on their power, which tends to become a parliament of some kind.

2. A written constitution is one way to go, but you have to have people that really believe in it eg a Washington that steps down after two terms. Jefferson, Adams etc had a sense they were making history ("OMG, we're doing all the stuff Locke, Rousseau, Hutcheson talked about. We better not frell it up!") I think other countries tried a written constitution after the founding of the USA and it didn't work out - presidents seized power for life, got deposed, another president seized power for life etc.

3. Another way might be a sort of meandering system of customs, each sort of created in response to a previous crisis. The tryanny of King John caused the Magna Carta. The 100 years war and constant heavy taxation gave parliament the right to tax. (not sure exactly about that one). and so on. And sometimes its what people thought about the custom that mattered, eg its the legal interpretion of the Magna Carta that matters, not actually whats written in the document.

Precisely.  This is why I want to see if I can design one from the ground up (rather than something the evolved by trial and error, like most historical examples) that can work and last and not end in tragedy.  I am of course taking full liberties to arrange the circumstances (resources, enemies, magic, etc) however I need to make that work, so it may not be all that applicable to a real-life situation.  If I need a horde of monsters on a border, magic artifacts of great power, or killer silver spores falling from outer space (pern reference), I am comfortable with that.  If the King is extra powerful because the Throne is an artifact that gives him control of the magical Defense Grid, maybe thats a reason why Parlament never marginalizes the position

So I guess, in terms of believability:
1. this is our system and we are committed to making it work.
2. revered heroes that lived by the system.
3. it may not be perfect, but its better than civil war.
4. despots don't stay benevolent, so system to block the king's power, eg parliament or council of Houses, or something. 

#3 could probably be said for any government. Though I am thinking it makes a stronger Society if the fear is of Invasion instead of Civil War.  Societies are almost always held together by some common Fear, and a threat from Outside tends to bring people together more than "Threat from Within" which keeps them suspicious and divisive. 

I had counted on at least two Council's being major political powers:  a 7 member council comprised of the leaders of each Guild, and one for the Houses (which will have some mix of the handlful of Major Houses and the dozens of Minor houses, possibly in a Council/Senior Council format).  Both could serve as anchors to balance the power of the Throne, but what would the Purviews of power be, and where would the checks and balances come into play?

Councils are not any less prone to abuses and corruption than a single point of Power, they are just larger and more difficult to move.  Any change to the Status Quo is guaranteed to be met with opposition, and thus be faced with deliberation.  This naturally slow process makes it harder for any individual's extremism to gain traction, and corruption takes longer to set in.  But that is a Peacetime system, in wartime it is crippling.  In wartime the singularity of Authority and Command is key to rapid response and clarity of purpose that is vital to a war effort.  The secret is finding a balance, and in making sure everyone agrees on the definitions of Peacetime and Wartime and who gets to decide that.  Otherwise you may get a Caesar that refuses to give up his Wartime Powers.

The Succession is going to be central to the story, so those details are of particular interest, but the system as a whole needs to be there. 

Trainers - maybe not a secret society, but members of a minority with little power, eg Buddhists in India or  Jews in medieval europe. Maybe the member are eunuchs or they live by rigid ascetism - no meat, no sex, no drinking, etc.

A social minority would be the most likely to produce a dissident that would seek to corrupt the system for his own (or the minority's own) interests.  If the trainer is a publically known group, it should be one with enough standing to not /want/ to be the king or control the king;  they have to love the system enough to want to reserve it.  A secret society has the benefit of a more selective admissions system, that could potentially weed out those without sufficient Idealism for the task. 

I had considered a monastic order, but even if they are maimed or otherwise rendered oviously incapable of sitting on the throne, they could easily sway to wanting to puppet the king.  Again it seems to come to motivations;  the teacher needs to be somebody with the wisdom and perspective to raise the potential candidates to use Power respionsibly, without ever being tempted to take that power for themselves. 

An intelligent magic Item could do it, maybe a sealed soul of a Founding Father. Or maybe some non-human spririt that racially has a usefully extreme psychology. 

I dont mind resorting to Magic where lasting Neutrality in needed, but Id like to minimize it where possible.

[LizW65]

One other issue is that the bloodlines of monarchies tend to become inbred after a while, with the same few families all marrying each other.  Maybe there could be a clause or requirement that allows for commoners to marry into the royal family, just to mix things up (and to add some perspective with an outlook that isn't insulated by wealth and power.)

[Quantus]

One other issue is that the bloodlines of monarchies tend to become inbred after a while, with the same few families all marrying each other.  Maybe there could be a clause or requirement that allows for commoners to marry into the royal family, just to mix things up (and to add some perspective with an outlook that isn't insulated by wealth and power.)

A good point, but in this particular world I dont think that inbreeding will be big a problem.  Family is important, but less because of the Bloodline than because of the organization.  Magic is the standard of Power, in the same way that Power was about martial prowess back in the day, and later became about economic power.  But power is not strictly passed by heredity, in strength or school.  So a weak Seer could give birth to a strong Elementalist, and vice verse.  Thats the idea behind the drive to prove yourself worthy in a Trial.  The value of a Family is less that you inherited anything specific from you parents blood, but that you were raised in the traditions of leadership and government.  Its Nurture vs Nature.  So I figure adoption would be a common practice whenever a promising youth was found.  Marriage would very widely by House, as some would be open to letting their scion marry for love, while others might pressure them for a political marriage. 

There will be a group that is universally pitied and/or looked down upon:  The Lost Stars (also called the Nameless, derogatory).  This will take a little explanation.  The Theology of the world is based on Astrology, which is complicated by the mass of debris ripped from the two moons each time they get too close.  The sky is filled with a massive layer of tiny asteroids that bounce around, skipping off the atmosphere or burning out in it.  Each person is believed to have a personal star somewhere in the sky, that mirrors/predicts/determines that persons fated path in life.  The Moons are the Twin Gods, the Standing Stars (what we think of as stars) govern the physical laws of the universe, while the Sun is thought to be a hole in the universe, from which all things spring and which all things will eventually return.  The Sun is also viewed as being under the world, which everything else will eventually fall into.  I havent decided on the role of the planets, but Im thinking they will be less important Gods, ones that are farther away because they dont care about mankind as directly.  Anyway, each person has a star somewhere up there (unknown to them unless they have a rare Seer's gift) that they were supposedly Born under.  One of the big reasons family is important is because they are present at the moment of you birth, and so only they can know what you were born under and tell you, in the form of a SkyName.  Those raised as orphans would not have anyone to tell them their SkyName, which is a fundamental aspect of their Identity.  As I write this I have realized two things:  The parents would probably tatoo the name on the child as soon as possible, and being born during the Day would probably be considered bad luck, so methods to control the timing of a birth would probably exist, though they may be derided as interfering with Fate, and so be a black-market thing.   

Breaking out of the insulation of Wealth and Power is a central theme.  The MC is the Crowned Prince about to go out into the land for training.  The Law says he must travel to learn Magic and the ways of the people.  For his (relatively benevolent) family this means traveling anonymously to experience the world as commoner would.  Other Families have different interpretations, so another might make a more courtly tour of it, with more pomp and ceremony and less attempted understanding.  Traveling with the MC will be a common born Martial Artist mentor figure that was bodyguard and confidant of his father, and a Nameless Elementalist that will be companion and sidekick. 

[MClark]

I had counted on at least two Council's being major political powers:  a 7 member council comprised of the leaders of each Guild, and one for the Houses (which will have some mix of the handlful of Major Houses and the dozens of Minor houses, possibly in a Council/Senior Council format).  Both could serve as anchors to balance the power of the Throne, but what would the Purviews of power be, and where would the checks and balances come into play?

I don't know. The US constitution has a number of checks and balances:
1. Taxation originates in the House, which is popularly elected. (Senators were not originally popularly elected.) But the Reps only serve for 2 years, so if they pass a lot of unpopular taxes, they can get kicked out.
2. The Senate must confirm government appointees.
3. The Supreme Court can invalidate laws (but look out for Andrew Jacksons!), and is appointed for life. But the constitution can be amended.

So powers to be balanced:
1. taxation
2. shape government by appointing bureaucrats
3. deny such appointments
4. declare laws unconstitutional
5. amend the constitution
6. need a Bill of Rights 
7. legislate laws.
8. popular election vs election by oligarchy
9. term limits is probably not very medievalesque
10. system of referendums for the commoners to redress greivances
11. free press

I'm sure I missed a bunch.

Maybe introduce a european style parliament - where the majority in parliament selects a prime minister and various factions have to bind together to get a majority. I don't know the advantages and disadvantages of euro style parliament.

I agree that fear of invasion will bind a country together. But I wonder if you overstate the need to bind together from fear of invasion. I don't think the USA much feared invasion after 1825 or so. (We were too big and Europe was still recovering from the Napoleonic wars, IIRC) Tho we did have ideas like manifest destiny to bind us together. (And slavery to tear us apart). Perhaps nationalism would do the trick?

Poland of the late 17th and the 18th C comes to mind. Prussia and Russia started working on the magnate's sympathies, offering titles and other inducements to gum up the works of the Polish Seym (congress). They kept the king too weak for too long and when a strong king finally started making progress at reform, Poland's neighbors were strong enough to just partition the kingdom. Note the fear of foreign invasion was not enough to keep the magnates aligned with Poland's interests, since foreign lobbyists convinced the magnates otherwise.

I think you just need to make a guess and then submit it to your writing group or your "D&D group". You might get more pointed criticism from your "D&D group" - my writing group is great at grammar, POV shifts, changes in character, etc but a little too polite about politics.

BTW can a crown princess become the sovereign or is it limited to males?

[Quantus]

Very good points.  The structure is still essentially a feudal society, so its a very vertical hierarchy.  Within a Family's territory their Sovereignty would generally rule, and could only be overridden by somebody higher up the ladder.  So things like taxation, legislative powers, functionary appointments, etc would be handled by the local Noble, so long as it doesn't contradict anything declared by a higher up (as each essentially rules in the name of their boss).  And only a superior could countermand them, though such Interventions are generally avoided, as there is a rebuke in it, stated or implied.  If you need to go past that, you need to get a sponsor that is higher up the Food Chain, but that would be like somebody in France getting England to complain to the UN;  Most would rather not get in the middle of internal disputes, and doing so is generally frowned upon.  i figure it would have to be criminal charges (Violations of Charter Law, ie human rights, treason, etc) or something equally important.  Each Major house will have widely varied cultures and styles, as much as any foreign country (single language though)

Offhand, the rough hierarchy would be:
1. Serf - houseless peasant
2. Family - a traditional extended family, usually in a particular business (Tailor, shipwrights, farmer, etc)
3. Merchant Family - Wealthy, Landowners.  The banks/Moneylenders/corporations (though probably not literally).  Basically a collection of the most influential Families of the City. 
4. Noble House - Local Government
5. Major House - State Government, Nobles are all bound to a Major House (geographically contiguous territory), and a Capital City where they also responsible for the Local government
6. Throne - Responsible for a central Capital city, as well as some territory of Nobles equal to a Major House (thus whichever Major House sits on the throne controls something like double the territory of the others... perhaps its geographically limited, like a large Island capital and several smaller island Nobles)
NOTE - there may be more layers between the city level Noble and the Major house, but it would follow the same pattern, just increasingly larger territories.

There will be a Charter that includes the Rights and Responsibilities of each level, including basic human rights, as well as outlining the various Trials.  A mechanism to challenge the local boss would be needed, so maybe everyone is allowed to go one step above their boss.  How about:  Anyone has the right to petition the local Noble House for an Intervention, though a serf would have difficulty being taken seriously without a family to sponsor them.  A powerful Merchant Family could go past the Noble to its Major House overseer if the matter is dire enough that it would impact the liege.  A Noble House Could petition the King to intercede against their Major House bosses.  The Major Houses would have a Council of their leaders, as a balance to the King who has no Boss.  I dont think they should be able to override him on just anything, or else his power would quickly erode.  I figure the most they can do by Law is some sort of Impeachment, a vote of No Confidence for extreme circumstances, which would require an equally extreme majority (maybe even a vote of the Lesser Nobles as well, or support from the Guild Council or something.  Or maybe there is no Law based recourse to depose a bad king, leaving assassinations or some secret Failsafe (magic, secret society, etc).  That being said I would see the average King delegating a number of things to the council, or seeking their advice as advisers, but the at the end of the day the King's Word is Law.

Although I am considering having a Trial by Combat option, whereas you can challenge somebody for their position by proving that you are better fit to defend the Land.  It wouldn't be the only trial for leadership, but it would be one of them required for the throne. A king would have to be able to defeat a Master of one of the Circles (ie a Guild leader or equivalent) or maybe all of them, to prove himself the most powerful in the land.  Hmmm, one trial per Circle would make sense.  At least one but not all would be combat, though all would likely be potentially deadly;  you cant hold back when choosing a King.  For lesser positions I figure theyd need to pass a certain number of trials (more trials for higher levels) to the satisfaction of a certain number of their future contemporaries, or a smaller number of a level up, and so on. 

Actually changing the Charter would be a very rare and difficult thing, as much of the framework will be symbolically tied up with the Astral Theology.  It will come up sometime in Book Three, but Im thinking that will be something unprecedented in their (current) society.  A big part of the MC is that he has magic that does not conform to any of the existing Schools, and breaks many of the established "rules" of magic. His birth was also during a particularly rare astronomical event, so he was raised under a certain bit of stigma, expectations of Greatness beyond even the Throne, and so facing jealousies and such since birth, and perhaps even some radicals thinking he will destroy teh world or some such catastrophe. 

I agree that fear of invasion will bind a country together. But I wonder if you overstate the need to bind together from fear of invasion. I don't think the USA much feared invasion after 1825 or so. (We were too big and Europe was still recovering from the Napoleonic wars, IIRC) Tho we did have ideas like manifest destiny to bind us together. (And slavery to tear us apart). Perhaps nationalism would do the trick?

Poland of the late 17th and the 18th C comes to mind. Prussia and Russia started working on the magnate's sympathies, offering titles and other inducements to gum up the works of the Polish Seym (congress). They kept the king too weak for too long and when a strong king finally started making progress at reform, Poland's neighbors were strong enough to just partition the kingdom. Note the fear of foreign invasion was not enough to keep the magnates aligned with Poland's interests, since foreign lobbyists convinced the magnates otherwise.

True we didnt have a heavy outside enemy, and so we started drawing lines in our own country and ended up in full civil war within a few decades.  But you raise a good point.  An outside force that is an active political force will be more divisive than not.  The Outside Enemy really needs to be a Boogie Man, something that nobody would work with, everybody fears sufficiently, and ideally nobody identifies with.  A Language barrier would need to be a minimum, but im leaning towards something more monstrous and/or less accessible.  An evil from the past (monster horde, barbarians, aliens!), rather than a neighbor.  Id rather keep the politics internal, with the different Major Houses playing the role of Neighboring governments and foreign cultures.  The Enemy would need to be something bigger, nastier, something no sane person would work with, if they could communicate at all.  And something that would warrant the upheaval that the Prince is basically prophesied to bring about.

BTW can a crown princess become the sovereign or is it limited to males?

Magic won't favor either gender over the other, so I dont see the main social order doing so, certainly not for choosing the King, which would be outlined by the Charter.  Any candidate put forward that can pass the Trials would have proven themselves worthy, regardless of gender.  In general the line of Succession would go by birth, then to adopted Family (unless politics push otherwise), which would be given an ill-defined rank of Cousin in the genealogy.  But that is just the Order by which they can attempt the Trials.  If the person in front of the line Fails (which may or may not be lethal) then the next one in line is free to step up and try.   

I could see there being House the favored one gender over the other.  Actually I like that idea, a Matriarchal House that tracks bloodlines through the mother's side only, and only ever puts forward Female Candidates.  They'd be the more oppressive, narrow minded house.  Thats good.  I needed an antagonistic contemporary from another house, but the male was becoming too Draco Malfoy for my tastes.  A more Conniving Bitch character would fit better. 

[OZ]

I read a science fiction short story many years ago that seems to have some similarity to yours. Unfortunately I don't remember the name or the author. The main character in the story is a bodyguard or retainer of sorts that is a combat veteran and whose family (IIRC) had served the royal family for many years. He and the King's eldest child, in disguise, begin traveling together as a final test to see if the Prince is fit. When the Prince proves to be a bully and a coward, he is killed by the retainer. When he meets with the King in the end, he tells the King that his child was a coward and a bully but tells him not to worry because, "You have other sons."

This type of scenario could make it even more important for the Royal Family to be fertile so that they could have backups if one or more of their children are found unfit. I like your idea of trials where the Ruler's family is first choice but not the only choice. You could several Noble families but only one Royal family with a switch happening every so often in which family is Royal. A combination of tradition and the strength of the other potentially Royal families could keep one family from permanently seizing all power and becoming tyrants. A rule declaring that if any member of one family married into another they would be permanently banned from the trials could help keep the families from banding together. I like the idea of a constitutional monarchy and I like the idea of the Nobility being forced to choose a spouse from the nonNoble families. I also see great opportunities for abuse of the system.

Ultimately human beings are not perfect and thus no system of government will be perfect. Finding one that is flexible enough to survive in spite of its imperfections is a challenge.

edit.
I thought I should add that when I talked about a switch in which family is Royal I meant a switch that happened as a result of the trials not because of timing or any other reason. There could also be one or two open slots in the trials for commoners to compete with none having ever won.  ( It, of course, leaves the future wide open if you ever want to shake things up.)

[The Deposed King]

Very good points.  The structure is still essentially a feudal society, so its a very vertical hierarchy.  Within a Family's territory their Sovereignty would generally rule, and could only be overridden by somebody higher up the ladder.  So things like taxation, legislative powers, functionary appointments, etc would be handled by the local Noble, so long as it doesn't contradict anything declared by a higher up (as each essentially rules in the name of their boss).  And only a superior could countermand them, though such Interventions are generally avoided, as there is a rebuke in it, stated or implied.  If you need to go past that, you need to get a sponsor that is higher up the Food Chain, but that would be like somebody in France getting England to complain to the UN;  Most would rather not get in the middle of internal disputes, and doing so is generally frowned upon.  i figure it would have to be criminal charges (Violations of Charter Law, ie human rights, treason, etc) or something equally important.  Each Major house will have widely varied cultures and styles, as much as any foreign country (single language though)

Offhand, the rough hierarchy would be:
1. Serf - houseless peasant
2. Family - a traditional extended family, usually in a particular business (Tailor, shipwrights, farmer, etc)
3. Merchant Family - Wealthy, Landowners.  The banks/Moneylenders/corporations (though probably not literally).  Basically a collection of the most influential Families of the City. 
4. Noble House - Local Government
5. Major House - State Government, Nobles are all bound to a Major House (geographically contiguous territory), and a Capital City where they also responsible for the Local government
6. Throne - Responsible for a central Capital city, as well as some territory of Nobles equal to a Major House (thus whichever Major House sits on the throne controls something like double the territory of the others... perhaps its geographically limited, like a large Island capital and several smaller island Nobles)
NOTE - there may be more layers between the city level Noble and the Major house, but it would follow the same pattern, just increasingly larger territories.

There will be a Charter that includes the Rights and Responsibilities of each level, including basic human rights, as well as outlining the various Trials.  A mechanism to challenge the local boss would be needed, so maybe everyone is allowed to go one step above their boss.  How about:  Anyone has the right to petition the local Noble House for an Intervention, though a serf would have difficulty being taken seriously without a family to sponsor them.  A powerful Merchant Family could go past the Noble to its Major House overseer if the matter is dire enough that it would impact the liege.  A Noble House Could petition the King to intercede against their Major House bosses.  The Major Houses would have a Council of their leaders, as a balance to the King who has no Boss.  I dont think they should be able to override him on just anything, or else his power would quickly erode.  I figure the most they can do by Law is some sort of Impeachment, a vote of No Confidence for extreme circumstances, which would require an equally extreme majority (maybe even a vote of the Lesser Nobles as well, or support from the Guild Council or something.  Or maybe there is no Law based recourse to depose a bad king, leaving assassinations or some secret Failsafe (magic, secret society, etc).  That being said I would see the average King delegating a number of things to the council, or seeking their advice as advisers, but the at the end of the day the King's Word is Law.

Although I am considering having a Trial by Combat option, whereas you can challenge somebody for their position by proving that you are better fit to defend the Land.  It wouldn't be the only trial for leadership, but it would be one of them required for the throne. A king would have to be able to defeat a Master of one of the Circles (ie a Guild leader or equivalent) or maybe all of them, to prove himself the most powerful in the land.  Hmmm, one trial per Circle would make sense.  At least one but not all would be combat, though all would likely be potentially deadly;  you cant hold back when choosing a King.  For lesser positions I figure theyd need to pass a certain number of trials (more trials for higher levels) to the satisfaction of a certain number of their future contemporaries, or a smaller number of a level up, and so on. 

Actually changing the Charter would be a very rare and difficult thing, as much of the framework will be symbolically tied up with the Astral Theology.  It will come up sometime in Book Three, but Im thinking that will be something unprecedented in their (current) society.  A big part of the MC is that he has magic that does not conform to any of the existing Schools, and breaks many of the established "rules" of magic. His birth was also during a particularly rare astronomical event, so he was raised under a certain bit of stigma, expectations of Greatness beyond even the Throne, and so facing jealousies and such since birth, and perhaps even some radicals thinking he will destroy teh world or some such catastrophe. 
True we didnt have a heavy outside enemy, and so we started drawing lines in our own country and ended up in full civil war within a few decades.  But you raise a good point.  An outside force that is an active political force will be more divisive than not.  The Outside Enemy really needs to be a Boogie Man, something that nobody would work with, everybody fears sufficiently, and ideally nobody identifies with.  A Language barrier would need to be a minimum, but im leaning towards something more monstrous and/or less accessible.  An evil from the past (monster horde, barbarians, aliens!), rather than a neighbor.  Id rather keep the politics internal, with the different Major Houses playing the role of Neighboring governments and foreign cultures.  The Enemy would need to be something bigger, nastier, something no sane person would work with, if they could communicate at all.  And something that would warrant the upheaval that the Prince is basically prophesied to bring about.
Magic won't favor either gender over the other, so I dont see the main social order doing so, certainly not for choosing the King, which would be outlined by the Charter.  Any candidate put forward that can pass the Trials would have proven themselves worthy, regardless of gender.  In general the line of Succession would go by birth, then to adopted Family (unless politics push otherwise), which would be given an ill-defined rank of Cousin in the genealogy.  But that is just the Order by which they can attempt the Trials.  If the person in front of the line Fails (which may or may not be lethal) then the next one in line is free to step up and try.   

I could see there being House the favored one gender over the other.  Actually I like that idea, a Matriarchal House that tracks bloodlines through the mother's side only, and only ever puts forward Female Candidates.  They'd be the more oppressive, narrow minded house.  Thats good.  I needed an antagonistic contemporary from another house, but the male was becoming too Draco Malfoy for my tastes.  A more Conniving Bitch character would fit better.

As for single gender houses...  If you could tie the house to some magic that heavily favors females over males.  Say... fertility/child magic.  A midwife equivalent.  And tie it in with psychology.  I.e. most men aren't as good with kids as most women.  Then take it to the extreme where the women lock up the system and only put forth female candidates.  The House of the 2nd Moon or some such.

Then have the alternate.  The House of the Dragon.  Only put forth male candidates because for whatever reason... combat magic?  they are heavily male favored.  They could essentially be opposites.  Like some sort of 'The only thing large enough to block the all seeing light of the Moon is the Shadow of the Dragon Wings in the sky'.  Play it all off in your astrological chart.

The Moon House gets its power from the Moon and are adept at harnessing it and directing it.  Their power is external source with native internal talent at harnessing outside forces.  It wanes and waxes with the cycles of the moon and the astrophysics.  (Thus you could potentially have a male who could harness these powers but the house wouln't provide training or support, unless their faces were rubbed in the person's talent in a public way.  Then they would shirk and sabotage training and his rise.)

Dragon House gets its power from internals.  Each individual gains their power from inborn talent.  Maybe they harness the fires within and then unload in firey burst of destruction but it has little to do directly with astrology.  The Dragon in the sky responds to their actions.  Unlike the Moon House where individuals respond to the power of the Moon.  Females could have dragon power.  But would be avoided, discriminated against and pushed until they broke during training.  Althougth theoretically they could rise to the top, same as Moon House.  However with both houses a little known fact is that if you could cast magics that affect the dragon in the sky you could theoritically effect all Dragon House magicers.  Same same with the Moon house.  If you could effect all the moon house members you could effect the Moon in the sky and move it in orbit.

Some Ideas for a system that keeps monarchy in power and honest.


1)  The first Monarch made a deal with the crying god or some major spirit or power.  He 'saved' the peninsula of land the kingdom, or most of its heart land is based on, from falling into the sea.  It is only the pact the Royal House made with this deity or Elemental of the Peninsula that keeps the entire kingdom from being consumed by the sea.  Thus their is active need to have a King and Royal House.  Without it everyone dies.  This isn't some, oh well if he dies everything could potentially get better.  Instead its a big oh shit moment, we need a new king pronto or we're all going to die or be displaced as beggars in foreign lands.

2) Some form of geas spell.  There would be work around but basically its a public ceramony where the King after the King makes his first pact 'with the Elemental that keeps the land safe', he turns around and says unless it conflicts with his first oath, He now swears to the people to xyz.  I will protect and defend you to the best of my abilities.  I will place the needs of the people over my own.  And so on and so forth.  You don't have to actually define it in words.  The effect of the oath could be shown as you write the book.
Essentially unless its in service of the first oath, if he doesn't put justice and the needs of the people first, he starts to wither away and die.  Or maybe he literally can't. If he believes he is doing something wrong, he is physically compelled to fix it and change course.  Ala Patricia Bray's main character who was the 3rd most powerful position in the kingdom after he took the oath.

3) For the noble houses...  I think that if you set up your system of nobility so there are a series of trials.  Anyone can attempt the trials.  And theoretically anyone could become king or duke or archmagus.  In reality only a select few are given training to become Healers or Weavers or Kings or Dragon House Wizards etc.  The trials are public and by order of the King, entrance trails are public and anyone who gets into the Sqaure or Hall or wherever the trials are held (varies by house/guild) can take the tests.  Set up a series of tests.  6 or 8 or 12, and it could vary by house but essentially, after you pass a certain number you are officially entered into the roles of the Noble House as a 'noble' member.  There could be grades of noble membership.  But essentially the noble houses would 'for the most part' train anyone in their blood lines who had the talent.  Unless they showed amazing talent for powers in another major or minor house.  Then there are the walk ins.  The wild cards, who don't necessarily have the life time of training in Astro-Magic or Flame Power or Ice Dueling or Symbol Magic, but are perhaps savants who intuitively understand or had access to a private library or old minor member of the noble house living outside the confines of the House Proper where all the influence peddling and seat of power is found.

For a House Lord, his power resides in understanding/weilding his/her house's power better and more powerfully than any other member.  Although I guess some house might elect their leader, and she/he might not necessarily be the most potent instead the most skilled or wise.  While for the King, his power comes in the main from his ability to stand as pledge to the Great Elemental that keeps the Kingdom from sliding into the sea.  After that his next duty is to the people, so he goes around to learn as much about each of the major players and common people as he can while he's the heir.  Honestly there could be over 100 heirs running around, from 8-80 years old.  Perhaps when the king dies they line up and try to plede their soul to the pact.  Some fail and are never heirs again, other are driven insane.  Some die from the attempt.  Eventually one succeeds and becomes the King.
Since its the Great Elemental that selects the King, for some quality that is poorly understood, its hard for the Major or Minor Houses to ensure 'their' preferred candidate is selected.  All they can do is train a candidate or candidates, and much like big Tobacco and the Pharmecitucal Companies, regardless of who they are primarily backing they spread the money around to all candidates viewed as having anything of a shot.  So that even if secretly they are mainly behind your chief rival they still put coin in your pocket.  You'll remember that when you are elected.

Maybe anyone can become an heir, they just have to make some sort of pilgrimage.  Common folk know the traditional route.  Maybe there are six or seven different cities and places you are supposed to visit and it gives you mystical power.  In reality what you are doing is going to major nexus loci where the Elemental is manifested in the land, to attune yourself to the Being.  Only those that are able to attune, knowingly or unknowingly are able to stand pledge.  Maybe there is some test that can measure your attunement.  Or maybe its eye color or something.  Those that manage to attune to the Elemental get purple eyes with a golden swirl where the pupil used to be.  What few realize is that while the major attunement nodal loci are  know, there are minor loci no one but a King or well attuned Heir would even realize were present.  PErhaps your hero grew up on one of these small hiden loci?

Also you could have in your history the time to 2 kings, where both were attuned to the Elemental.  The Rule of the Crone, an aged lady who lasted 5 years and the age of the Fool, when a child was turned into a drooling idiot but succeeded in making the pact before he died a years later.

As for the position of Queen.  Make that different from the position of King's Consort.  Maybe the Queen is supposed to tune herself to the 6th Sea.  So that when each king dies, and the land starts to slowly sink into the ocean, she talks with the Sea and keeps its from immediately swallowing up the kingdome.  Thus giving time for the Heir to form and gather for the ceramony.

Foreign lands and sorcerers and kings would all be scheming and looking for advantage when the king of this land dies.  Heck even just killing the king and slaughtering as many heirs as possible might result in the total destruction of these people, as the land was swallowed by water.  Demon powers looking to corrupt and destroy.  Ideas for attempts to bind the Great Elemental (most doomed to failure).  A scheming royal throne that is more than it seems and has an agenda all its own, as well as an unknown quirk of being able to extend its awareness to each of  the major loci along the pilgrimage, so it can monitor potential heirs.

Lots of potential ideas here.



The Deposed King

[Quantus]

I really dont want to make the magic itself have a gender bias, but I fully expect each Major House to have a differnt spin on each school, so the idea of opposing Houses woud work well, without the divinde having to be on a purely mystical line.

As I said earlier the magic is divided into 6 schools, the Circles of Six and One, but those are specialties within the same system more than rigid divisions.  The purpose being that the MC will have a power that is far mor fundamentally different and all of the others.  Ill write up more detail on them in a second post, but I want to respond to the rest of your post, and these posts are getting kinda long..

Some Ideas for a system that keeps monarchy in power and honest.

1)  The first Monarch made a deal with the crying god or some major spirit or power.  He 'saved' the peninsula of land the kingdom, or most of its heart land is based on, from falling into the sea.  It is only the pact the Royal House made with this deity or Elemental of the Peninsula that keeps the entire kingdom from being consumed by the sea.  Thus their is active need to have a King and Royal House.  Without it everyone dies.  This isn't some, oh well if he dies everything could potentially get better.  Instead its a big oh shit moment, we need a new king pronto or we're all going to die or be displaced as beggars in foreign lands.

2) Some form of geas spell.  There would be work around but basically its a public ceramony where the King after the King makes his first pact 'with the Elemental that keeps the land safe', he turns around and says unless it conflicts with his first oath, He now swears to the people to xyz.  I will protect and defend you to the best of my abilities.  I will place the needs of the people over my own.  And so on and so forth.  You don't have to actually define it in words.  The effect of the oath could be shown as you write the book.
Essentially unless its in service of the first oath, if he doesn't put justice and the needs of the people first, he starts to wither away and die.  Or maybe he literally can't. If he believes he is doing something wrong, he is physically compelled to fix it and change course.  Ala Patricia Bray's main character who was the 3rd most powerful position in the kingdom after he took the oath.

A bargain may work, though Im not sure I want to go so far as have them Manifest (as thats the central part of the sequel trilogy in the back of my mind, centered around the next Generation.  I dont want to do a Geas or mental control, because the current king (the MC's father) was a powerful Mind Mage  (see next post, its scientific/procedural magic, kinda the classic Hogwarts type) who is loosing him mind Alzheimer's style, and I dont want that to have any metaphysical implications of Failure.  Its more of a tragedy to see haw far he's fallen, and a motivation for the MC who realizes he will have to face the King's Trials soon whether he is ready or not. 

Making the King a mystical linchpin to something would be a good way to go, as I want everyone to agree to the need of /a king/ even if they wont always agree on who it should be. 

3) For the noble houses...  I think that if you set up your system of nobility so there are a series of trials.  Anyone can attempt the trials.  And theoretically anyone could become king or duke or archmagus.  In reality only a select few are given training to become Healers or Weavers or Kings or Dragon House Wizards etc.  The trials are public and by order of the King, entrance trails are public and anyone who gets into the Sqaure or Hall or wherever the trials are held (varies by house/guild) can take the tests.  Set up a series of tests.  6 or 8 or 12, and it could vary by house but essentially, after you pass a certain number you are officially entered into the roles of the Noble House as a 'noble' member.  There could be grades of noble membership.  But essentially the noble houses would 'for the most part' train anyone in their blood lines who had the talent.  Unless they showed amazing talent for powers in another major or minor house.  Then there are the walk ins.  The wild cards, who don't necessarily have the life time of training in Astro-Magic or Flame Power or Ice Dueling or Symbol Magic, but are perhaps savants who intuitively understand or had access to a private library or old minor member of the noble house living outside the confines of the House Proper where all the influence peddling and seat of power is found.

For a House Lord, his power resides in understanding/weilding his/her house's power better and more powerfully than any other member.  Although I guess some house might elect their leader, and she/he might not necessarily be the most potent instead the most skilled or wise.  While for the King, his power comes in the main from his ability to stand as pledge to the Great Elemental that keeps the Kingdom from sliding into the sea.  After that his next duty is to the people, so he goes around to learn as much about each of the major players and common people as he can while he's the heir.  Honestly there could be over 100 heirs running around, from 8-80 years old.  Perhaps when the king dies they line up and try to plede their soul to the pact.  Some fail and are never heirs again, other are driven insane.  Some die from the attempt.  Eventually one succeeds and becomes the King.
Since its the Great Elemental that selects the King, for some quality that is poorly understood, its hard for the Major or Minor Houses to ensure 'their' preferred candidate is selected.  All they can do is train a candidate or candidates, and much like big Tobacco and the Pharmecitucal Companies, regardless of who they are primarily backing they spread the money around to all candidates viewed as having anything of a shot.  So that even if secretly they are mainly behind your chief rival they still put coin in your pocket.  You'll remember that when you are elected.

You have it confused a little bit:  there are two separate power structures at play here: the Guilds (economic interest) and the Houses (political interest).  Each Guild is dedicated to a particular Circle of Magic, whereas the Houses are governmental bodies, and are more geographically oriented.  Anyone who can pass that Circle's Trials has proven himself and can learn that Guild's magic (though each guild will have its own internal structure).  The Houses angle to position their members within the guild strategically, which is a common part of the interplay between the Houses.  If you gain notoriety in a Guild there is a good possibility you may be adopted into a House, but that is at the full discretion of the House's internal leadership.  Houses may have Preferences to one circle or another, but that's more tradition and/or geographic pressures, so a House who's territory is covered in Forrest would likely favor Shamanism (animal magic), Coastal cities would have a preference to Elemental magic of Air and Water, etc. 

Each house sets its own internal standards for Rank appointments, but all follow the general principle that a candidate born and raised to the role will be the most qualified through training and familiarity, but that he must prove himself worthy of the power and position by achieving a certain level of mastery in at least one school. Those who blend disciplines exist, but generally cannot get very good without focusing on a single Circle (as generalists tend to do).  The Kingship is a special and more formalized/ritualized case, as it is a role that must prove himself to be worthy of being raised above Everyone else, and so is expected to be on par with the Guild Leaders, who are the most powerful/skilled of each Circle. 

Maybe anyone can become an heir, they just have to make some sort of pilgrimage.  Common folk know the traditional route.  Maybe there are six or seven different cities and places you are supposed to visit and it gives you mystical power.  In reality what you are doing is going to major nexus loci where the Elemental is manifested in the land, to attune yourself to the Being.  Only those that are able to attune, knowingly or unknowingly are able to stand pledge.  Maybe there is some test that can measure your attunement.  Or maybe its eye color or something.  Those that manage to attune to the Elemental get purple eyes with a golden swirl where the pupil used to be.  What few realize is that while the major attunement nodal loci are  know, there are minor loci no one but a King or well attuned Heir would even realize were present.  Perhaps your hero grew up on one of these small hiden loci?

This is more or less what I had in mind.  Cities will have Guild-houses based on their size and House affiliations, but every guild required its members to make a pilgrimage to the Temple headquarters at one point or another in their training. Most only go to one (as most can only afford that) but the Higher echelons, especially those expected to take over a Major House or the Throne are expect to journey to each of them and have a much broader base of knowledge.  The Story will follow the MC Heir to the throne as he makes that pilgrimage, sheds his sheltered naivete as he learns the truths about the land, and also comes across some of the other Candidates hoping to take the Throne if he fails his Trials (or can be removed before he gets to them) 

Also you could have in your history the time to 2 kings, where both were attuned to the Elemental.  The Rule of the Crone, an aged lady who lasted 5 years and the age of the Fool, when a child was turned into a drooling idiot but succeeded in making the pact before he died a years later.

As for the position of Queen.  Make that different from the position of King's Consort.  Maybe the Queen is supposed to tune herself to the 6th Sea.  So that when each king dies, and the land starts to slowly sink into the ocean, she talks with the Sea and keeps its from immediately swallowing up the kingdom.  Thus giving time for the Heir to form and gather for the ceremony.

Foreign lands and sorcerers and kings would all be scheming and looking for advantage when the king of this land dies.  Heck even just killing the king and slaughtering as many heirs as possible might result in the total destruction of these people, as the land was swallowed by water.  Demon powers looking to corrupt and destroy.  Ideas for attempts to bind the Great Elemental (most doomed to failure).  A scheming royal throne that is more than it seems and has an agenda all its own, as well as an unknown quirk of being able to extend its awareness to each of  the major loci along the pilgrimage, so it can monitor potential heirs.

Lots of potential ideas here.

The Deposed King

Good ideas, but ranging pretty far afield of image I had im my head.  There can be a King or a Queen, whoever sits on the Throne, but marrying that person only earns you the title of Consort.  The Consort may well have another Title, within the House or a Guild, and could even lead one in their own right, but that would be something proven through a Trial, like any other position of Power. 

For now I really need to keep the kingship a Singular Authority, and there will be quite a bit in the way of magical artifacts that would make any challenger at a major disadvantage.  Im leaning more and more toward an external Enemy, but of the Monster or Nature flavor, rather than something that could be reasoned with in a diplomatic sense.  I want to keep the Politics internal. 

[The Deposed King]

Sounds like you've got some pretty firm Ideas already.  Go forth and conquer!


The Deposed King

[knnn]

Have you read the Drageara series?  It's got an empire that has lasted for hundreds of thousands of years (except for the recent Interregnum), and the 17 houses of the empire follows what you describing in a rough manner.

I think the key there is that while the empire itself is pretty stable, each of the houses has a slightly different philosophy of ruling so that the actual style of rule changes in a (relatively) stable cycle every 8*17*17*17 = 40000 years or so.

Other key points:

- The emperor get his funds from the major houses.  These impose their own taxation (though the taxation rules appear to be pretty uniform).

- The emperor control one of the ultimate powers in the world -- in a sense, the emperor is almost divinely chosen.

- A powerful outside enemy that (at least) the house leaders are very much aware of.

[Quantus]

Sounds like you've got some pretty firm Ideas already.  Go forth and conquer!


The Deposed King

I have fairly firm Ideas for the Magic system and how it ties to the Astrotheology of the land, its only as I am kicking the idea around with you fine folks that I am getting a clearer picture of the House dynamics.  Thanks for your help 

[Quantus]

Have you read the Drageara series?  It's got an empire that has lasted for hundreds of thousands of years (except for the recent Interregnum), and the 17 houses of the empire follows what you describing in a rough manner.

I think the key there is that while the empire itself is pretty stable, each of the houses has a slightly different philosophy of ruling so that the actual style of rule changes in a (relatively) stable cycle every 8*17*17*17 = 40000 years or so.

Other key points:

- The emperor get his funds from the major houses.  These impose their own taxation (though the taxation rules appear to be pretty uniform).

- The emperor control one of the ultimate powers in the world -- in a sense, the emperor is almost divinely chosen.

- A powerful outside enemy that (at least) the house leaders are very much aware of.

Taxes will flow directly up the authority tree, so the King will get his "federal" funds from Taxes collected from the Major Houses.  I was thinking he could also get some directly from Captial City, but in retrospect I think it would make more sense for the King so simply appoint a local Noble (politically chosen, likely from his house), but let the taxes come as part of the standard Pyramid system. 

The more I think about it the more I think making the King a mystical linchpin to some defense system makes more and more sense.  It also fits with a minor scenes I had written where the King activates an Heir's Artifact that the Prince wears, which marks him as the invested Heir.  The purpose of such a device would be to ensure that there is no gap in rule should a King die, which makes more sense if an empty throne is a more immediate vulnerability. 

I definitely need an Enemy I think.  I dont want it to be a political enemy, and I dont really want to go so far as a natural disaster sort (like Thread from the Pern novels).  So monsters seems to be the way to go, I just need to figure out where to put them, and what the personality is like.  They wont be a constant pressure in that I dont want the society to be too militaristic as a whole, so a more looming threat from the past, something that comes once a generation or less...

[Quantus]

All commerce, industry, and technology are based on magic of one form or another (Clocks, plows, stoves, looms, etc. are all some form of magical device).    Magic is divided into the Circles of Six and One, which comprise the 7 Guilds that specialize in each Circle.  All magic is based on the same fundamental ability to send your mind into something external, ie "Casting".  Theologically their is one Circle for each of the Planets in the Solar System, six other planets and Earth(ish) as the One, which is mastery of your own Body rather than enxternal Casting.  In practice, the Circle in which a person can Cast is determined by their psychological inclinations.  Because it takes different and often incompatible psychologies to Cast in different Circles, crossover is possible but not common.  So a Mind Mage who is used to absolute control of his working may have difficulty with the surrender required for Seers to Cast into the Sky, or with the guiding the quantities of primal energy that the Elemetalist channel.

The Circles of Six and One are as Follows:

-Seers - Rare, they cast themselves into the skies, and gain knowledge from it.  Monastic, typically preside over Birthing in order to calculate a proper Sky-name. 
-Elementalists - They cast into one or more of the Four Elements, the Primal energies.  One of the oldest known circles
-Druids/Shaman - Cast into the Living World, ie. Plants and Animals
-Blood Mages - Cast into other Human Beings; Healers.  Requires blood to blood contact to facilitate the connection. 
-Artificers - Can create Magic items with permanent Connections (as opposed to the Charged items most other circles can make), required in the most powerful of Artifacts. 
-Mind Magic - Symbolic "Pattern" Magic.  Most "scientific" and urban of the Circles.  Uses layers of abstraction and modular patterns to create complex and intricate effects. 

All people have some level of potential for casting, so it is not a purely hereditary talent, but rather a skill that still requires effort to train and develop, even if you are born with innate talent.  A Noble house or Major house is not powerful because they produce more innately powerful Casters, rather they are powerful because they are old enough to have accumulated their Power in the forms of land, influence, magical secrets, and powerful artifacts.  Children born to the nobility have the advantages wealth typically brings, such as more indepth education, heirloom magical artifacts, trade secrets held by the family, and the freedom to pursue personal development that you get when you dont have to work to put food on the table.  But a tradesman that works a particular magic every day as part of his job may well become just as powerful a caster as a Noble that spent all day in training exercises.  And such powerful tradesman would have a good chance of being adopted into a Noble House, or even of founding a smaller one of his own.