Power Synergy

[ways and means]

If a player took a power that allowed them to see through wall and already had evocation which has a line sight range can he then use evocation through walls as his line of sight is extended through them? 

[Praxidicae]

Personally I wouldn't allow it, I'd put it in the same realm as targetting an opponent with evocation through a crystal ball/scrying device and, according to YS, evocation cannot be targetted through:

scrying devices or some other effect

. The ability to see through walls, would be, to me anyway, a similar effect to scrying an opponent.

As a potential counterarguement the same page mentions that Cowl managed to do this, but that "hey, that's Cowl for you".

[Ophidimancer]

My answer would be yes, maybe.  I'd then ask for a specific description of the power and adjudicate based on that.  The range is line of sight, but is it a projectile of some sort?  If so, an x-ray vision power won't allow your fireballs to pass through walls, no.

[Silverblaze]

I allow a lot for player creativity.  It would be a case by case scenario and depend heavily upon the spell description.

[Haru]

I'd allow it, but the wall would provide (significant) protection against the attack. Depending on the wall, it would be something along the lines of +2 to +6 to the dodge roll, or maybe half of that as armor against the attack (cumulative to other sources of armor), because going through the wall takes some (if not all) power of the spell away.

[Silverblaze]

Shooting fire at them through the wall wouldn't work nearly as well as a gravity spell, or an "earth stomp".  You could create a vaccuum in the room or remove all the heat from their body causing them to freeze.  No direct path to the target is really required then.

[Mr. Death]

I think the "line of sight" qualifier refers more to distance than it does to actually being able to see someone.

Think of it like Nightcrawler's teleportation. He's usually limited to line of sight because he needs to know he's not going to pop out in the middle of some object, but if he knows there's empty space on the other side of a wall, he can still pull it off.

[ways and means]

I think the "line of sight" qualifier refers more to distance than it does to actually being able to see someone.

Think of it like Nightcrawler's teleportation. He's usually limited to line of sight because he needs to know he's not going to pop out in the middle of some object, but if he knows there's empty space on the other side of a wall, he can still pull it off.

Uhm did you just contradict yourself?  In the nightcrawler example line of sight meant being able to see what your doing rather than distance.

[Mr. Death]

No, I didn't. Read the post more carefully. I said he's usually limited to line of sight, but still entirely capable of teleporting to someplace he can't see if he knows what's there, exactly like you could apply to Evocation.

[Sanctaphrax]

I wouldn't allow it unless an extra cost was attached to the sight power for the privilege.

Assuming, of course, that you mean that the spell would go through the wall without impediment. If you're willing to just smash through the wall, you could launch zone attacks blind without too much issue.

[Mr. Death]

I would say if you can "reach" it with Evocation, you can do it, provided you know where you're shooting. So if you can see through the wall (or otherwise perceive location--sound or smell, for instance for those with Echoes of the Beast) well enough to target, fine. Otherwise, it'd be a block of some kind (probably to perception) or a compel to just say, "Well, you can't see him, how are you going to hit him?"

[Sanctaphrax]

Do you mean that you can do it without impediment? If I was blasting you through a glass wall, would you derive any protection from that wall?

Would it matter what kind of spell I was using? Would lasers go through the transparent wall while force blasts smash into it?

[Mr. Death]

Do you mean that you can do it without impediment? If I was blasting you through a glass wall, would you derive any protection from that wall?

Would it matter what kind of spell I was using? Would lasers go through the transparent wall while force blasts smash into it?

Provided you can somehow perceive your target well enough to hit, yes, your targeting roll wouldn't be hampered, provided the attack could reasonably get through the material in some sense (either by being strong enough to plow through it, or just getting around it).

Yes, I think the type of spell would matter. Straight-line projectiles (such as Harry's Fuego) would be hampered by sufficiently dense materials even if you know where your target is (sheet rock, glass and balsa wood, probably not. Concrete or steel, certainly--possibly adding an armor rating to the defender) while things like the gravity bomb he uses in "It's My Birthday, Too," wouldn't be hampered by the same barriers (though different barriers might be an obstacle--maybe an earth-based gravity spell doesn't work right if you're on the third floor of a wooden building).

I think this would fall under declarations and compels, similar to how it mentions in YS that wording a block in a certain way might lead to an opponent declaring a way around it (think Harry's shield spell in Blood Rites vs. Mavra's using flamethrowers).

[eri]

Personally I wouldn't allow it, I'd put it in the same realm as targetting an opponent with evocation through a crystal ball/scrying device and, according to YS, evocation cannot be targetted through: . The ability to see through walls, would be, to me anyway, a similar effect to scrying an opponent.

Well, I would think that if this power was something innate to you, something you did as easily as breathing, then that wall would hamper you about as much as a glass wall. However, if you have to think about it to be able to do it, it would be the same as trying to use evocation through scrying. Because they explain the line-of-sight rule by saying that you can't concentrate on two spells at the same time.

if you have to concentrate on a second spell to find your target, it's just too much

Which reminds me, I was going to write up a multiple-personality spellcaster.

[Haru]

Since magic is mostly "what you believe", I would almost always add the wall as a barrier. If the wizard has a really good reason to ignore the wall, I might allow that, otherwise human beings are probably always going to perceive walls as barriers, because that's what they are. Yes, not every wizard is a human being, but the majority is going to be.

Also: a glass window might actually be a pretty high barrier for a laser, depending on a number of factors. However, you could invoke what I wrote above, and give the wizard the layman's version of a laser, a bundle of light, and light passes easily through glass. So knowing less, or believing the "wrong" thing might be an advantage in this case.

And I'm not sure if spells like "removing the air" and "removing the heat" aren't a bit too subtle for evocation. At least to make them effective enough, you'd need a few exchanges, I think.