PG: combining Neurovore and Knnn.

[BlahBlah]

Mab is nowhere near Uriel's power level.  Uriel has full Intellectus (which by definition includes the power to understand what you know) and was described by JB as "an Executive VP of Creation."  It would be a stretch to put Mother Summer and Mother Winter in Uriel's ballpark, and they are both clearly more potent than Mab.

Mab cannot have any sort of general form of Intellectus and simultaneously be unable to lie.  For example, when Marcone gets snatched by the Denarians and Harry asks Mab who took him, she responds, "I don't know."  It's possible for that to be a true statement (in a twisty Sidhe sense) if she believes she has partial knowledge; it is not possible for that to be a true statement from a being with Intellectus.

Took me a while to find the source I was looking for.

In SK Lea states (to Harry after he Sees Seeing Titania and Mab): "They exist in opposition.  Each wields vast power, wizard - power to rival the archangels and lesser gods."

^_^

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Took me a while to find the source I was looking for.
In SK Lea states (to Harry after he Sees Seeing Titania and Mab): "They exist in opposition.  Each wields vast power, wizard - power to rival the archangels and lesser gods."

Thank you.

[Ms Duck]

Thanks, i forgot that. I knew we had put the archangels, mothers. And ferrovax in the same general weight class but i forgot why..

[MartyTaylor]

Good thread. Some stuff I'd like to throw in the pot.
 1) We're asking - Why did Mab kidnap Molly?, when Harry's spell mirrored the fetches back at the summoner shouldn't we be asking - Why did Mab kidnap anyone? I mean, how do we know that Molly was her primary target?
 2) We're assuming Justin was Black Circle/Council. Was he? He recruited two potential Outsiderbanes that appear to have been prepped for immediate entry into both Winter and Summer. I mean, not only did Harry have immediate easy access to Winter as soon as he dealt with HWWB, didn't Elaine have a quick pass into Summer? Who set that up? That is a very important question no one seems to be asking.

[Elegast]

Good thread. Some stuff I'd like to throw in the pot.
 1) We're asking - Why did Mab kidnap Molly?, when Harry's spell mirrored the fetches back at the summoner shouldn't we be asking - Why did Mab kidnap anyone? I mean, how do we know that Molly was her primary target?

There's a WOJ which strongly implied that Molly was targeted:

Ask yourself why Mab had Molly brought in.  What chain of events did that set in motion?  What secondary effects came about because of it?  Ultimately, Mab can always go to the Wyld and draw in more muscle to replace fallen thugs.  If worst comes to worst, with just a few "seed" fae, she could rear up enough Changelings to repopulate her cadre within a human generation or two--nothing, to a being thousands of years old. 

Plus a fear inducing sorcerer was necessary for the plan to work, and we know that Marling pushed Molly into breking the third Law.

[MartyTaylor]

Which, essentially, means that Mab was going to thrash convention goers until her minions could snatch Molly. Meaning one of two things,
1) if Harry's not at the convention the first evening, i.e. drops Molly off after bailing her out or just lets her have the cab, she gets kidnapped the first night.
or
2) if Harry doesn't cast his mirror spell there's going to be a whole lot more mayhem before Mab finally gets her hands on Molly

[Elegast]

Which, essentially, means that Mab was going to thrash convention goers until her minions could snatch Molly. Meaning one of two things,
1) if Harry's not at the convention the first evening, i.e. drops Molly off after bailing her out or just lets her have the cab, she gets kidnapped the first night.
or
2) if Harry doesn't cast his mirror spell there's going to be a whole lot more mayhem before Mab finally gets her hands on Molly

1)The Gatekeeper told Harry to investigate black magic. And frankly, knowing Harry, it's easy to predict that a serie of murder in Chicago using supernatural means will draw him in.

2) According to Bob, we know that the mirror spell is strandart WC procedure. And someone puts a ward, making Harry think that a practitioner was invoking the fetches.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Does any of this become simpler if we posit Mab and Raschid in functional cahoots ?  [ Not necessarily sitting down and planning together, I mean, but one knowing enough about the other's actions to make plans incoroporating them. ]

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

2) According to Bob, we know that the mirror spell is strandart WC procedure.

And indeed, Harry does something similar based on the mirror-ward idea in BR.

[Ms Duck]

@neuro: ive been assuming mab and raschid know each other since sk.

[MartyTaylor]

I've often wondered what would be given away if Harry had an opportunity to "see" Rashid on Demonreach with his intellectus. At times I've fingered him for Black Council because of this. Not as certain of that now, but I don't believe his line about "having a history" with the island (or whatever he said). I don't think he wants Harry to get that look at him.

Is he missing the same eye as Vadderung? Could they be the same person? I doubt it myself, but the possibility has occured to me.

[BlahBlah]

Thanks, i forgot that. I knew we had put the archangels, mothers. And ferrovax in the same general weight class but i forgot why..

If Lea is right, then Mab and Titania are in the same weight class as Uriel.  The Mothers are a cut above, at major-god levels.  Seems appropriate, given that they are the heart of faerie.

Ferrovax?  I think there's WoJ on him placing him at archangelic levels, but I can't quote it.

[uncanny]

If Lea is right, then Mab and Titania are in the same weight class as Uriel.  The Mothers are a cut above, at major-god levels.  Seems appropriate, given that they are the heart of faerie.

Ferrovax?  I think there's WoJ on him placing him at archangelic levels, but I can't quote it.

I thought the capital D Dragons were cosmic forces in their own right?

[Ms Duck]

The woj goes that they are forces of nature, stronger than mab, and ferro used to be at the 'vp' level (tho jim didnt use that exact word) but is not anymore. And they dont like humans.

[Arjan]

Does any of this become simpler if we posit Mab and Raschid in functional cahoots ?  [ Not necessarily sitting down and planning together, I mean, but one knowing enough about the other's actions to make plans incoroporating them. ]

What is the old desert fox up to?