PG: combining Neurovore and Knnn.

[Second Aristh]

Does anyone have a searchable copy of the df? I dont have my books, but there is a quote in sk where lea talks about how much she cared for maggie, and one in gp where she talks about how long they were together. Also the comment in pg where maeve talks about love majing the sidhe insane.

Here's the relevant portion of PG.  I don't have digital copies of the others.

"It may well be.  Dark things stir in Winter's heart.  Things even I have never before seen.  Dangerous things.  I believe they are a portent." 
I tilted my head a little, focused on her.  "How so?"
"What Aurora attempted was insane.  Even among the Sidhe,"  Maeve replied.  "Her actions could have thrown enormous forces out of balance, to the ruin of all."
"Her heart was in the right place,"  Fix said, his tone mildly defensive.
"Maybe," I told him, as gently as I could.  "but good intent doesn't amount ot much when the consequences are epically screwed up."
Maeve shook her head.  "Hearts.  Good.  Evil.  Mortals are always concerned with such nonsense."  She abruptly rose, her mind clearly elsewhere.
Something in her expression or manner gave me a sudden sense that she was worried.  Deeply, truly worried.  Little Miss Overlord was frieghtened.
"These mortal notions," Maeve said.  "Good, evil, love.  All those other things your kind natter on about.  Are they perhaps contagious?"
I rose with her, politely.  "Some would say so," I told her.
She grimaced.  "In the time since her death, I have often thought to myself that Aurora was stricken with some mortal madness.  I believe the Queen of Air and Darkness has been taken by a similar contagion."  She suddenly shuddered and said, voice curt, "I have answered you with truth, and more than needed be said.  Does that satisfy the accounting, mortal?"
"Aye," I told her, nodding.  "Good enough for me."

[Ms Duck]

Thanks

[knnn]

Starting from the assumption that Scarecrow really was outsider-powered, I submit a slightly modified version of what happened that might fit the events we see:

Grave Peril
1) Cowl et. al (Black Court) are preparing for a Darkhallow.  Problem is that any of the existing major power groups would try to stop him from achieving their goal -- nobody wants an extra necro-god (and we have a WoJ that Cowl+Darkhallow could beat Mab) messing up the existing balance of power.

2) Thus, the plan is to attempt to distract all the major power groups -- in any way possible.  A war is fostered between the White Council and the Reds, and the Athame is given to Lea to cause imbalances between the courts.

Summer Knight
3) Initially, everything seems to work.  Giving Lea the Athame caused Aurora to look for other sources of power - resulting in her going crazy.  Lea herself gets infected.  The White Council - Red Court war begins.  Harry manages to take out Aurora, but the overall plan is still going well.

Dead Beat
4) Everything is in readiness for the Darkhallow.  The Reds are convinced to make a major attack on the White Council on the night before Halloween, and Lea tries something (rebellion?) that forces Mab to imprison her. 

Option 1 as suggested by Thork, this rebellion might have actually been assault on Arctis Tor itself, preserved until PG through time differences in Faerie.

5) Unfortunately, the Darkhallow fails, thanks to the efforts of one Harry Dresden.  This causes a *big* problem for the Black Council, because Mab now has the athame.  Originally nobody in the Black Council worried about this issue, because they expected to have a Necro-God on their side.  Now however, Mab has a major artifact in her hands, is healing Lea, and is certainly planning retaliation.

Option 2
Lea+Athame = Minor imbalance in the Courts => Faerie Courts distracted.
Mab+Athame = MAJOR imbalance in the Courts => Big trouble.

In this option, the assault on Arctis Tor happens some time between Dead Beat and PG, and is specifically a raid to get the Athame out of Mab's hands.

Option 3
As above, except the assault was made in order to free Lea.

In any case, we have a WoJ pretty much stating outright that the assault failed. 

Proven Guilty
The Black Court is now getting desperate.  Whether they need to free Lea before she gets cured, or whether they need to get their hands back on the Athame is irrelevant.  Time is running out for them.

Thus, they concoct a plan to summon some fetches to Earth and infect one or more of them.  Once the infected Fetch gets back to Arctis Tor, it can either release Lea or maybe just get the Athame back. 

How do you get a Fetch to come to Earth?  Well, you need to summon it with a load of fear.  Enter Madrigal, puppet of the Black Council.  As Madrigal says, he was invited to come to the convention a year previous.  ...Right around the time the Darkhallow failed?

On page 302 of the paperback Harry says the following:

"Whoever called up the phages," I said, "needed a way to guide them from the Nevernever to the physical world.  They needed a beacon, someone who would resonate with a sympathetic vibe.  Someone who, like the phages, wanted to make people fell fear."

Harry is talking about Molly, but Madrigal sure fits the description really well.

6) The Black Court plans the convention and summons a bunch of Fetches to home in on Madrigal.   Glau is the cutout who is supposed to make sure Madrigal is in the right place.  They manage to infect one of the fetches -- Scarecrow. 

Glau is then killed by the outsider-powered fetch -- nothing personal, just killing all the witnesses.

7) Mab however has other ideas.  She manages to get Molly to use fear magic, thus sending the (other?) fetches after Molly, instead of Madrigal.  This ensures that Harry Dresden (AKA "known powers over Outsiders") comes into the picture.  Note that this point would seem to make Sandra Marlin an agent of Mab's, rather than an agent of the Black Court. 

8 ) Harry chases after Molly, and (as Mab planned) manages to beat the Outsider-infused Scarecrow right before Scarecrow manages to release Lea/Athame/whatever.

Note: If Aurora was also outsider infected this would make an interesting symmetry, as both Faerie Courts would have then employed Harry to excise an Outsider-based contamination.

9) In the process, Harry accidentally injures Mab by pouring Summer-Fire into the wellspring of Winter.  This is not as Mab planned -- fitting in nicely with the WoJ we have.

----------------

[BlahBlah]

My problem with the theory that the Outsider needed killing is that Mab was its Queen.  Surely she could have orchestrated his death in many, many ways.  Its possible that the Scarecrow had tricked her into giving it some kind of safe harbor, but this just strikes me as wholly unfounded and conjectural. 

If the WOJ suggests that Mab orchestrated the chain of events, I think that Summer Fire in the Winter Well is still the likeliest desired outcome.  If the athame had infected Winter then perhaps Mab needed Summer's fire to cleanse Winter's well.  Its a purifying force, after all.  In this instance it was wielded by an Outsiderbane, who might have been uniquely effective in remove an Outsider taint.

[knnn]

My problem with the theory that the Outsider needed killing is that Mab was its Queen.  Surely she could have orchestrated his death in many, many ways.  Its possible that the Scarecrow had tricked her into giving it some kind of safe harbor, but this just strikes me as wholly unfounded and conjectural. 

Thing is, one could say the same thing about Aurora.  According to the Gatekeeper, Harry had already fulfilled his obligation to Mab by finding out that Aurora did it -- presumably all he needed to do was shout out the truth: "Hey Titania, your daughter is gonna sacrifice your Knight after sunset"? 

We've seen Titania put a geas on Lily - why couldn't she do the same for Aurora?   Instead, she lets Harry do it -- risking the chance that he won't succeed and all that power will flow to Winter.

-----------------

If on the other hand, Outsider-power somehow protects you from being attacked by the Faerie Queen, then it makes sense that Harry was necessary back in Summer Knight and is necessary for the Scarecrow.

[King Ash]

Does anyone have a searchable copy of the df? I dont have my books, but there is a quote in sk where lea talks about how much she cared for maggie, and one in gp where she talks about how long they were together. Also the comment in pg where maeve talks about love majing the sidhe insane.

Can't find anything in Summer Knight about Maggie other than this comment:

She let out a peal of laughter. “No, silly child. Simply put your hand in mine. I will convey you.”
I gave her a sidelong look and asked warily, “At what price?”
“None.”
“None? You never do anything without a price.”
She rolled her eyes and clarified, “None to you, child.”
“Who, then?”
“No one you know, or knew,” Lea said.
An intuition hit me. “My mother. That’s who you’re talking about.”
Lea left her hand extended. She smiled, but only said, “Perhaps.”

That was searching for Lea, Leanansidhe, Maggie, Margaret, and Mother within Summer Knight.

Grave Peril

“Treacher!” spat my godmother. She rose up from the ground, blackened and burned, her fine dress in tatters about her waist, her body and limbs stretched, knobby, and inhuman. She clenched her hands into fists at her sides, and the fire from the building around us seemed to rush down, gathering in her grasp in a pair of blazing points of violet and emerald light. “Treasonous, poisonous child! You are mine as your mother swore unto me! As you swore!”

She’s bad, Harry. Some of them are merely alien, but that one is… malevolent. She enjoys causing pain.”
“Yeah,” I said. “I didn’t exactly pick her.”
“Who did?”
I shrugged. “My mother, I think. She was the one with power. My fatherwasn’t a wizard. Wasn’t into their world.”
“I don’t understand why she would do that to her child.”
Something inside me broke with a little snapping sensation, and I felt tearsat my eyes. I scowled. They were a child’s tears, to go with a child’s old pain. “Idon’t know,” I said. “I know that she was mixed up with some bad people. Bad beings. Whatever. Maybe Lea was one of her allies.”
“Lea. It’s short for Leanandsidhe, isn’t it.”
“Yeah. I don’t know her real name. She takes blood from mortals and gives them inspiration in return. Artists and poets and things. That’s how she
amassed most of her power.”
Michael nodded. “I’ve heard of her. This bargain you have with her. What is it?”
I shook my head. “It isn’t important.”
Something shifted in Michael, became harder, more resolute. “It is important to me, Harry. Tell me.”
I stared at the babies for a minute, before I said, “I was a kid. Things fell out with my old teacher, Justin. He sent a demon to kill me, and I went on the run. I made a bargain with Lea. Enough power to defeat Justin in exchange for my service to her. My loyalty.”
“And you broke faith with her.”
“More or less.” I shook my head. “She’s never pushed it before now, and I’ve been careful to stay out of her way. She doesn’t usually get this involved with mortal business.”
Michael moved his hand to Amoracchius’s empty scabbard. “She did take the sword though.”
I winced. “Yeah. I guess that was my fault. If I hadn’t have tried to use it to weasel out of the deal…”

“Why?” she said, finally, her voice very quiet, pitched only for me. “Why would you do this to yourself, Harry? I don’t understand.”
“I didn’t think you would,” I said. “There are people who need me. People who are in danger because of me. I have to help them.”
“You cannot help them if you are dead.”
“Nor if I am taken by you.”
“You would give your own life in place of theirs?” she asked, her tone incredulous.
“Yes.”
“Why?”
“Because no one else can do this. They need me. I owe it to them.”
“Owe them your life,” Lea mused. “You are mad, Harry Dresden. Perhaps it comes of your mother.”
I frowned. “What’s that supposed to mean?”
Lea shrugged. “She spoke as you do. Near the end.” She lifted her eyes to Michael and straightened on the horse. “A dangerous play you made tonight, wizard. A bold play. You cut the traditions of my people very close to the bone. I accept your bargain.

Those are the only conversations that Harry's mum comes up in relation to Lea. I dont really recall anything about Lea talking about how she cared for his mother or them spending time together, only that Maggie bargained with Lea to protect Harry.

[Ms Duck]

Thanks ! I found th sk quote, will toss it in when i get to my pc instead of my dumb phone. Lol

[Thork]

How do you get a Fetch to come to Earth?  Well, you need to summon it with a load of fear.  Enter Madrigal, puppet of the Black Council.  As Madrigal says, he was invited to come to the convention a year previous.  ...Right around the time the Darkhallow failed?

I'm not sure the Black Council was "desperate", or that the Darkhallow was their primary goal. I do think their apparent goal at this point is destabilization and chaos -- knocking over and weakening as many of the big supernatural players as possible.

Here's a question though: was Molly a target of opportunity, or the original plan? A horror convention with a Malvora in attendance is a great way to send in fetches to Chicago and give Harry something to do, but who knew -- a year in advance -- that Molly would be developing magical talent?  There is that quote in Grave Peril where Lea asks for Michael's eldest child, but that could be general "fae ask for eldest child" trope, not specific evidence.

[Ms Duck]

Or possibly 'winter wants molly'. I think the malvora was a stooge, set up to take the blame if things backfired. Mab has multiple plans running at once.

[Cenphx]

What I dont get is why, if the fetches were sent to kidnap Molly, did they go around beating up, scaring and killing a bunch of other people? Were they just *that bad* at the job Mab sent them there for? I remember some of the hobs got sidetracked collecting people to eat while trying to get to Ivy in SmF, but the fetches seem like somehwat hihger level servitors. Plus there were multiple waves of fetches sent. Once the first or second wave didnt aacheive their objective to get Molly, you'd think the third one wouldve been laser focused on her and precise, but it doesnt seem like they were.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Jim says that she sacrificed the fetches, and CK in particular.

If you're talking about the WoJ you just quoted, where do you read it saying that she did rather than that she would ?

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Here's the relevant portion of PG.  I don't have digital copies of the others.

See, that feels to me like Maeve speculating wildly about something she has not got a clue about, and her believing Mab's been taken by a similar contagion is something even she doesn't say is a definite thing.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

In this option, the assault on Arctis Tor happens some time between Dead Beat and PG, and is specifically a raid to get the Athame out of Mab's hands.

Option 3
As above, except the assault was made in order to free Lea.

In any case, we have a WoJ pretty much stating outright that the assault failed. 

I'm not sure we can take there as having been only one assault.

If CK is Outsider-backed, it seems quite possible to me that we have one assault which is Hellfire trashing Mab's bodyguard, and another which puts CK in charge.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

What I dont get is why, if the fetches were sent to kidnap Molly, did they go around beating up, scaring and killing a bunch of other people?

This would be my primary reason for believing kidnapping Molly is about luring Harry to Arctis Tor, either to take out the Scarecrow or to drop Summer fire in the wellspring or both, whatever else is going on.

[Ms Duck]

If you're talking about the WoJ you just quoted, where do you read it saying that she did rather than that she would ?

by the phrasing of the original question.