Induction into a hidden society

[Paynesgrey]

the dreaded info dumps are to be avoided if at all humanly possible.


the Deposed King

I had a hard time dancing around how to avoid one of those.  Ended up using a briefing, because in that setting that's exactly how the information would have realistically been disseminated to the other characters.  Plus it gave me a chance to work in their voices and personalities, concerns and issues.  But it's not something that'll work in every setting or be used too frequently.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

I had a hard time dancing around how to avoid one of those.  Ended up using a briefing, because in that setting that's exactly how the information would have realistically been disseminated to the other characters.  Plus it gave me a chance to work in their voices and personalities, concerns and issues.  But it's not something that'll work in every setting or be used too frequently.

I'm finding the great thing about a first-person narrator who is explicitly writing this stuff down is that a) she's keen to fill in the explanations and b) I can get a bunch of characterisation and worldbuilding in by the things she skips over as obvious to her, and the things she explains as totally weird to her and her assumed audience that a present-day reader will not think are weird at all.  If anything, I'm having to restrain her a bit on that, but she can usually be diverted into how nowhere she goes ever makes a decent cup of coffee.  (In the place she's in now, she complains that they serve it bitter, uncarbonated, and worst of all, hot.  I think that sets up what her default expectation actually is better than pausing for three paragraphs to fill in the preceding 2300 years' history of coffee-drinking.)

Some bits of first-person stuff with the right narrator are so much easier than third person I'm surprised it's legal.

[Snowleopard]

I did one story - and I need to find it again.  Hopefully it didn't get thrown out
in the great move - where the protagonist is a news reporter - so the story is told from
her rather dry point of view and an info dump is, in essence, part of what she does.
Though I try not to do big info dumps.  They'll just bore the socks off your readers.

[Paynesgrey]

I'm finding the great thing about a first-person narrator who is explicitly writing this stuff down is that a) she's keen to fill in the explanations and b) I can get a bunch of characterisation and worldbuilding in by the things she skips over as obvious to her, and the things she explains as totally weird to her and her assumed audience that a present-day reader will not think are weird at all.  If anything, I'm having to restrain her a bit on that, but she can usually be diverted into how nowhere she goes ever makes a decent cup of coffee.  (In the place she's in now, she complains that they serve it bitter, uncarbonated, and worst of all, hot.  I think that sets up what her default expectation actually is better than pausing for three paragraphs to fill in the preceding 2300 years' history of coffee-drinking.)

Some bits of first-person stuff with the right narrator are so much easier than third person I'm surprised it's legal.

I can imagine.  Haven't worked my way up to first person yet though.  I'm still in the "learning exercise" part of the process.  One thing I am having a great deal of fun doing is matching the language I use in the descriptions and such to the specific character who's the focus of the scene at the time, which seems to be an interesting method of demonstrating how they perceive and process things compared to other characters. 

[The Deposed King]

I can imagine.  Haven't worked my way up to first person yet though.  I'm still in the "learning exercise" part of the process.  One thing I am having a great deal of fun doing is matching the language I use in the descriptions and such to the specific character who's the focus of the scene at the time, which seems to be an interesting method of demonstrating how they perceive and process things compared to other characters.

Well I don't know that first person is increadibly hard.  You just have to be a little in the guy/gal's head as you go along.  For instance, with my Admiral Who, I just filtered most new experiences through Jason's paranoia or in some cases his feelings of superiority or inadequacy.  Essentially he was always scheming.

You just have to remember to always be digressing after the dialogue, but at the same time it also has to be very much connected or else you wander too off the reservation.



The Deposed King

[cenwolfgirl]

ah i am curently trying first person it sorta is okay most of the time

[Lord Rae]

Thanks for the discussion. Totally got me over the hurtle and I'm pushing along again.

[Madd]

I had a similar issue.  My solution was to take the "need-to-know" approach, and slowly let the character in to see the pieces pertaining to him and his problem (or her and her problem, depending on which story I'm working on.)

[cenwolfgirl]

Thanks for the discussion. Totally got me over the hurtle and I'm pushing along again.

that is good
I like that feeling
speaking of i am going to go write now as i don't have to do anything ells till after tea 

[Quantus]

I am a fan of developmental Milestones.  You structure the secret society in levels, and each level has a trial/test/moral that must be learned and overcome before the next level can be attempted.  It would provide Ranks, a reason to dole out information in several smaller pieces, and draws the reader in more because they are, in theory, working toward a realization along with your character, rather than just having information thrown at them.

[Enchantedwater]

That is really tough. I am struggling with that one also. I say break it up and try and do a few 'time warps.' Tell it in flash backs, memories, or  like it is stuff the charater already knows because he is in the future. Hmmmmm. Not explaining right.....

Induction
First Glimps
Flash Forward a few weeks/ days/ months
Flash Backs As Nessisary

Use conversations between people so readers can glean information. You don't need to say everything upfront.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

That is really tough. I am struggling with that one also. I say break it up and try and do a few 'time warps.' Tell it in flash backs, memories, or  like it is stuff the charater already knows because he is in the future. Hmmmmm. Not explaining right.....

Induction
First Glimps
Flash Forward a few weeks/ days/ months
Flash Backs As Nessisary

Use conversations between people so readers can glean information. You don't need to say everything upfront.

That can certainly work, but it an also be a nightmare to keep things straight doing that way; needs a fair bit of organising to make sure you don't lose track of your continuity.

[Enchantedwater]

Yep. That's what outlines are good for. It is still a headache though.

[The Deposed King]

Yep. That's what outlines are good for. It is still a headache though.

I tried to do a flashback scene, or reverse order something.  But when I went through and edited I just moved it back where it should have been chronologically.  I trimmed and puffed and pasted.

So I don't have the kind of helpful imput I would like.

best of luck!



Always follow the dream,

The Deposed King