Compelling NPC Aspects

[Aubri]

I've posted before about NPCs infrequently being able to use their own aspects. It occurred to me that they could be used in a couple of different ways, though.

The first is to compel the NPC to supply him with Fate. Is this kosher? For example, spotting the Ogre Berserker a fate point when going berserk complicates his life.

The second thought I had was to compel the PCs based on NPC aspects. For example, "The pixie sentinels are Inhumanly Alert, so you're spotted sneaking up on the encampment. *fate point*"

Whatcha think?

[sinker]

The first is to compel the NPC to supply him with Fate. Is this kosher? For example, spotting the Ogre Berserker a fate point when going berserk complicates his life.

Totally kosher. I do this often.

The second thought I had was to compel the PCs based on NPC aspects. For example, "The pixie sentinels are Inhumanly Alert, so you're spotted sneaking up on the encampment. *fate point*"

From the terminology this is a bit weird. You don't usually compel one person through someone else's aspects, because someone's aspects are their way of showing you where they want difficulty. However I would totally allow the "Inhumanly Alert" Pixies to invoke their aspect for effect, which would lead to difficulties (though not necessarily immediate consequences) for the players. From a mechanical standpoint it's the same thing though, Pixies spend a fate point, players get a fate point, players' lives are complicated.

[Tedronai]

From a mechanical standpoint it's the same thing though, Pixies spend a fate point, players get a fate point, players' lives are complicated.

Not QUITE the same thing, in that the version you presented (and that the rules support) has the pixies losing a fate point, whereas a compel is funded by the GM's own inexhaustible supply.

[Aubri]

From the terminology this is a bit weird. You don't usually compel one person through someone else's aspects, because someone's aspects are their way of showing you where they want difficulty. However I would totally allow the "Inhumanly Alert" Pixies to invoke their aspect for effect, which would lead to difficulties (though not necessarily immediate consequences) for the players. From a mechanical standpoint it's the same thing though, Pixies spend a fate point, players get a fate point, players' lives are complicated.

Well, the pixies have to get the point from somewhere first. However, if they do have one for whatever reason and they invoke their aspect, does the fate point go back into the bank or does it go to the player they're using it against?

[Tedronai]

Generally, invoking one's own aspects does not send a FP to anyone else, even if they are negatively impacted by the immediate results of that invoke (non-immediate results may be another matter: invoking your own aspect to create a scene aspect which was then compelled against another character would have the potential to send them a FP, but it would not recognizably be the one you spent)

[devonapple]

I posted a similar question in a thread, asking how and how often people were Compelling their NPCs:
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,31464.0.html

The consensus among the respondents was that most GMs rarely track individual NPC FP totals, preferring to budget a pool of FPs for scenes, from which the NPCs could draw as needed.

I personally like having the option of providing the players with brief NPC cutscenes in which the NPCs are shown in pursuit of their goals (which would justify FP awards), but the technique did not get much community acclaim.

[wyvern]

Hm.  Well, let's see here.  By RAW, compelling the pixies aspect of inhuman alertness against the players isn't legal.

Yet, compelling the scene aspect, "guarded by inhumanly alert pixies" against the PCs... is.  That said, I usually wouldn't; there's a fine balance line between making aspects useful, while still letting skills be useful.  As a PC with a stealth skill of one & no relevant aspects, I'd have no problems with taking my fate point and accepting failure without rolling.  As a PC with a stealth skill of 3 to 5 and an aspect for being sneaky, though, I'd probably feel miffed about having to pay a fate point just to make my character function as I'd expect.  And I'd similarly be miffed if there was a miscommunication and I had already rolled & gotten +4 on the dice and then had to pay a fate point to "keep" that result.

[UmbraLux]

I've compelled PCs with an NPC aspect.  Though it could also be phrased as compelling a declaration related to the NPC's aspect.  Either way the PCs get a fate point - and, unless I'm learning or teaching, that's more important to me than the exact mechanics of getting there.

The specific case was a necromancer the PCs were getting ready to go up against.  The compel was pushing planning and working together because they knew he would kill them if he could.  If you prefer, I compelled the NPC to kill, declared the PCs knew enough to know that was coming, and compelled the declaration.  At the table I simply said "his aspect My Life through Your Death is being compelled, he will kill if he takes you out".

[Praxidicae]

I personally like having the option of providing the players with brief NPC cutscenes in which the NPCs are shown in pursuit of their goals (which would justify FP awards), but the technique did not get much community acclaim.

I've done this (or something similar anyway) and had it work quite well.

Two of the players were away on holiday, so in order to avoid either dropping the sessions for the month, or relegating their characters to the background, I ran a mini scenario I nicknamed "The Other Half" in which the remaining three players took over a group of villainous pre-gen's working towards the goal of ushering their Outsider master into the world. I simply gave them their ultimate goal along with a vague synopsis of their cult and let them loose, we had a fun couple of weeks as they ran rampant over London to further this end. When the month ended and I left them on the cliffhanger of starting the ritual they were rather disappointed.
The kicker: Once the other players returned I started dropping hints of a wave of minor thefts, vandalism and attacks ravaging the city, crimes that seemed rather familiar to three of the players. (Fortunately most of these players are pretty good at seperating Player and Character knowledge) As things reached the climax the Player's found themselves facing the NPC's at the ritual site, with the NPC's possessing all of the Fate Points and Accrued Ritual Aspects that they (the players) had built up during their brief sojourn on the darkside.

[Orladdin]

I've done this (or something similar anyway) and had it work quite well.

Two of the players were away on holiday, so in order to avoid either dropping the sessions for the month, or relegating their characters to the background, I ran a mini scenario I nicknamed "The Other Half" in which the remaining three players took over a group of villainous pre-gen's working towards the goal of ushering their Outsider master into the world. I simply gave them their ultimate goal along with a vague synopsis of their cult and let them loose, we had a fun couple of weeks as they ran rampant over London to further this end. When the month ended and I left them on the cliffhanger of starting the ritual they were rather disappointed.
The kicker: Once the other players returned I started dropping hints of a wave of minor thefts, vandalism and attacks ravaging the city, crimes that seemed rather familiar to three of the players. (Fortunately most of these players are pretty good at seperating Player and Character knowledge) As things reached the climax the Player's found themselves facing the NPC's at the ritual site, with the NPC's possessing all of the Fate Points and Accrued Ritual Aspects that they (the players) had built up during their brief sojourn on the darkside.

Wow, that's such a cool setup!
How did it turn out?  Did any of the characters express that they'd like their darker side to win?  I've had it happen before where something like this ended up getting set up, and all but one of the characters chose the dark side.  The one who didn't got a heroes' death, and we rebooted the primary campaign to follow the "villains".

[Praxidicae]

It went really well. The good guys won of course (although it did take a little GM jiggery-pokery). There was a brief holy crap moment when they Players realized that all the hard work they had put in for the 'Other Side' was now working against them. The scenario took place in an abandoned Chalk Mine South of London, where the 'Outer-Gate' holding back the Big bad had been buried by a combined Winter/Summer Fae alliance.

Basically the fight boiled down to three of the Characters dueling with two of the Darkside NPC's and their horde of baby outsider minions, the Darkside cultist, the Wizard and the Scion of Ares faced off in a 'who can cast this ritual/breakdown this guy's defences fastest' challenge.

My favourite bit was having one of the NPC's (A former Lucha Libre Wrestler Lycanthrope) call down the Holy Warrior PC for a "one-on-one, man to man duel" (This was the Main PC of the Guy that had played the Lycanthrope) compelling the PC's Faith is my Sword and Chivalry is my Armor aspect (An aspect that has got the PC's into a whole load of trouble). The Paladin of course accepted, cue anticipation for a drawn out swashbuckling fight (which the party could really ill afford as this whole time the cultist is still chanting)...and then the Scion shot the Lycanthrope in the face.
It didn't take him out but basically turned the whole thing into a free for all Brawl, with the majority of the PC's skirmishing around the Cultist's layered circles of protection, the Wizard holding back and bringing the defences down one by one as the Scion taking potshots at anyone who got too close to the Wizard.

The PC's won eventually, but it was a damned close thing (The wizard gained a Lawbreaker stunt from it - and suffered temporary madness from gazing too long at the tentacular horrors of the the outer realms). 

[Orladdin]

It went really well. The good guys won of course (although it did take a little GM jiggery-pokery). There was a brief holy crap moment when they Players realized that all the hard work they had put in for the 'Other Side' was now working against them. The scenario took place in an abandoned Chalk Mine South of London, where the 'Outer-Gate' holding back the Big bad had been buried by a combined Winter/Summer Fae alliance.

Basically the fight boiled down to three of the Characters dueling with two of the Darkside NPC's and their horde of baby outsider minions, the Darkside cultist, the Wizard and the Scion of Ares faced off in a 'who can cast this ritual/breakdown this guy's defences fastest' challenge.

My favourite bit was having one of the NPC's (A former Lucha Libre Wrestler Lycanthrope) call down the Holy Warrior PC for a "one-on-one, man to man duel" (This was the Main PC of the Guy that had played the Lycanthrope) compelling the PC's Faith is my Sword and Chivalry is my Armor aspect (An aspect that has got the PC's into a whole load of trouble). The Paladin of course accepted, cue anticipation for a drawn out swashbuckling fight (which the party could really ill afford as this whole time the cultist is still chanting)...and then the Scion shot the Lycanthrope in the face.
It didn't take him out but basically turned the whole thing into a free for all Brawl, with the majority of the PC's skirmishing around the Cultist's layered circles of protection, the Wizard holding back and bringing the defences down one by one as the Scion taking potshots at anyone who got too close to the Wizard.

The PC's won eventually, but it was a damned close thing (The wizard gained a Lawbreaker stunt from it - and suffered temporary madness from gazing too long at the tentacular horrors of the the outer realms).

... niiiice.

[Aubri]

There was a brief holy crap moment when they Players realized that all the hard work they had put in for the 'Other Side' was now working against them.

Of course, that kind of trick only works once per player. ^_^