Doylist analysis on LC fix timing

[Serack]

Who fixed LC is a topic that typically gets a lot of mileage around here.  Especially since LC is a pet theory hot topic for some around here *looks significantly at the quacker.*  So sorry if this has already been thoroughly rehashed, and sorry that I dedicated this to it's own topic, but I spent a bit of time klobbering it together so I wanted it to stand alone.

Having read through PG a couple weeks ago, I had something jump out at me during this most recent reread since I was thinking about LC.  This is a rather Doylist analysis (TvTropes warning)

(ch. 15) Harry takes Mouse and Bob with him first thing in the day after his interrupted attempt to use LC to track black magic.  However, Harry doesn't take Bob out of his pack until he sets up the spell to tag the phage summoner in his hotel room shortly before sundown(ch. 23).  And all Bob does is offer an opinion on the spell, nothing big.  Harry has only taken Bob along on a case 3 other times.  In GP, Bob is crucial in leading Harry through the NN.  In Changes, Harry took Bob out to help guard against the will of the LotON, and significantly from a Doylist perspective, he took Bob out to Murph's in DB only to have him become vulnerable to being stolen by Cowl. 

Here's the thing though.  In chapter 15, Murph gives Harry a ride to the hospital to examine the victims of the previous night's phage attack only to bring him right back to the apartment in chapter 18.  From Harry's motivations the only thing accomplished by going back to the appt. is the chance to walk Mouse before having to call a cab to go right back out to Mac's to visit with the Summer Knight.  Really there isn't much good reason for Harry not to just skip the cab fare and get Murph to drop him off at Mac's in the first place.

So here's the Doylist conclusion: 
Either Jim removed a laundry list of potential hurdles to having someone come in and fix LC at the beginning of the day's events, and then as an afterthought had Harry come back for the sole purpose of catching Thomas on his way out, with the return having nothing to do with the timing of LC's fixing...  Or Jim had Harry pick up Bob (and Mouse) early in the day and lug him around the hospital despite him planning on coming right back to the appt because he deliberately wanted LC to get fixed while Harry was at the hospital.  The only reason why I can think of for needing it to happen during this time frame is because Thomas was in the appt while Harry was at the hospital, and thus Thomas was involved in the fix (probably by letting whoever did it in). 

[Edit:  Don't fixate on Thomas letting the perp in.  That's a /possible/ reason.  The true theory/conclusion is that Jim needed Thomas there when it happened, letting the perp in is a resonable guess as to why]

P.S.  Thanks wyltok for giving me a term for "theorizing from a writing perspective rather than from an in story perspective"

Edit:
Some extra thoughts posted in follow up posts (mostly mine unless otherwise noted):

• Looking at Thomas's actions in Backup, my secondary conclusions are that if Thomas let the "fixer" in without explaining it to Harry, he did it for very good reasons, and with good intentions.
  
  
• This gets me thinking... Whoever Thomas could have let in would have to be someone that doesn't care about a WCV living with Harry or flat out knows their relationship.
  
  

• Still, Jim is pretty good at keeping his books lean and relevant.  If something isn't necessary for a book, why put it there?  The Doylist argument of "He just figured this [time travel] out and wanted to show it off" doesn't hold up to me.  I don't think he'd contrive to include a "this is how time travel works" treatise in PG if time travel wasn't crucial to the events of that novel.
  

  
  
• Also, the fact that Thomas greeted Harry with the sawed off Shot Gun at the beginning of Ch 18 when he is coming in the door made me think that maybe he was particularly jumpy at the time, and wonder how that flavors this theory.  I started going down the train of thought that maybe the perp was still in the appt at the time, but if so, Mouse would have probably keyed in on a veiled exit.
  
  
• Super Summary:  The doylist point isn't necessarily that whoever did the fixing needed Thomas to let him in, although that was said to be a possible conclusion.  The doylist point is that Jim needed Thomas in the appt when the fixing was done

11/9/2015 edit:
In a recent reading I took note that immediately after Molly's interrupting his aborted attempt to use LC to sniff out black magic on the first evening of PG, he ended up bringing Mouse with him to "bail out" Molly.  Doylist thoughts on this:

• The weak given reason for bringing Mouse is that Mouse gave a hopefull look and batted the leash (basically asked to come).  Jim worked in a joke around a comment immediately before that about being "a sucker for a pretty face" with respect to his damsel in distress button being pushed, and commented on Mouse's desire to come with, "You ain't pretty, furface." 
  Although funny, the joke seems a little forced, possibly in an attempt to cover the lame excuse to bring Mouse?
• Bringing Mouse seems to have accomplished very little, but not nothing. 
  • Proxy friendliness to the cabby ("Mouse has better people skills than me.")
  • Warning growl about the white tail car (later attributed to Thomas supposedly)
  • Initial negative reaction towards Molly.
  • Up front establishment that Mouse would be along for most of the case.

Just some thoughts.  Together with the original theory, they show that Mouse getting out of the Appt. the next morning isn't as outlying, and that if the mystery fixer was actually in the Appt. while Harry was dealing with Molly that night, then Bob was there too.

[Priscellie]

Intriguing!  Having Thomas at the apartment to let in the Mysterious Fixer widely expands the suspect pool.  "Ability to get past Harry's wards" was one of the primary restrictions, in my mind. 

Of course, that adds in another variable: If Thomas let someone in Harry's apartment, wouldn't he have mentioned it?  The endless string of girls Thomas has been bringing back to Harry's apartment suddenly got a good deal more suspicious.

P.S.  I love the concept of Watsonian vs. Doylist analyses.  I'll have to start using the terms!

[derrick]

Of course, that adds in another variable: If Thomas let someone in Harry's apartment, wouldn't he have mentioned it?  The endless string of girls Thomas has been bringing back to Harry's apartment suddenly got a good deal more suspicious.

Like he told Harry about the Oblivion War?  Or his activities during White Night?

Good post, Serack.

Edit:
What I'm saying is that Thomas doesn't tell Harry everything--although Thomas usually has good reasons as to why (Oblivion War: Harry would make it worse.  WN: Justine was under the gun.  Salon: Embarrassment. Etc.)  He was raised in a 'family' that prides themselves on deception, manipulation, and catspaws.

[Serack]

Intriguing!  Having Thomas at the apartment to let in the Mysterious Fixer widely expands the suspect pool.  "Ability to get past Harry's wards" was one of the primary restrictions, in my mind. 

Of course, that adds in another variable: If Thomas let someone in Harry's apartment, wouldn't he have mentioned it?  The endless string of girls Thomas has been bringing back to Harry's apartment suddenly got a good deal more suspicious.

P.S.  I love the concept of Watsonian vs. Doylist analyses.  I'll have to start using the terms!

Looking at Thomas's actions in Backup, my secondary conclusions are that if Thomas let the "fixer" in without explaining it to Harry, he did it for very good reasons, and with good intentions.

[Priscellie]

Like he told Harry about the Oblivion War?  Or his activities during White Night?

Good post, Serack.

Edit:
What I'm saying is that Thomas doesn't tell Harry everything--although Thomas usually has good reasons as to why (Oblivion War: Harry would make it worse.  WN: Justine was under the gun.  Salon: Embarrassment. Etc.)  He was raised in a 'family' that prides themselves on deception, manipulation, and catspaws.

Oh, I wasn't leaving that out of the equation.  At least, I wasn't in my head.   Looks like I didn't manage to include that potential avenue on paper!  I suppose "why wouldn't he have mentioned it?" is a more fitting question.

[TheCuriousFan]

How the heck would Thomas be convinced to let someone play with Harry's volatile magic equipment in the basement that they by all rights should not know exists?

[۞†Grey Warden†۞]

Who fixed LC is a topic that typically gets a lot of mileage around here.  Especially since LC is a pet theory hot topic for some around here *looks significantly at the quacker.*  So sorry if this has already been thoroughly rehashed, and sorry that I dedicated this to it's own topic, but I spent a bit of time klobbering it together so I wanted it to stand alone.

I hope you aren't talking about me.

[peregrine]

How the heck would Thomas be convinced to let someone play with Harry's volatile magic equipment in the basement that they by all rights should not know exists?

If it's a Venatori thing, he'd hide stuff even from Harry.

[TheCuriousFan]

If it's a Venatori thing, he'd hide stuff even from Harry.

Yeah, he hides things from Harry, now why the hell would he trust someone in Harry's basement in the first place?

[Griffyn612]

Yeah, he hides things from Harry, now why the hell would he trust someone in Harry's basement in the first place?

That's my only problem with it.  Who would he have to let in to work on LC?  The only people that would fix it (Mab, Leah, Future Harry, Eb, Elaine) would already have the ability to let themselves in.

[۞†Grey Warden†۞]

That's my only problem with it.  Who would he have to let in to work on LC?  The only people that would fix it (Mab, Leah, Future Harry, Eb, Elaine) would already have the ability to let themselves in.

You are forgetting LC itself.

[Vairelome]

P.S.  I love the concept of Watsonian vs. Doylist analyses.  I'll have to start using the terms!

I agree very much, as someone who has consciously made both Watsonian and Doylist arguments at various times on these boards (though I was unfamiliar with the terminology at the time).

On the broader point, this was a good catch, Serack; I think your logic is convincing.

[SAZ]

Wow – good catch Serack.

I’m inclined to believe one of two things about the timing of Thomas leaving as Harry gets back from the hospital visit.

1. Thomas let the Gate Keeper in (either knowing or unknowing). The Gate Keeper then fixed LC. This all hinges on the Gate Keeper’s pre-cog abilities and the fact that the Gate Keeper got Harry pointed in the right direction. Maybe the Gate Keeper was even working with/for Mab as it seems much of what else that happened in PG was of Mab’s design. So I don’t see it as a stretch that Mab and the Gate Keeper were in cahoots with each other. 
Or
2. It was meant to be a red herring for us reads to suspect Thomas had something to do with fixing LC. However much to JB’s surprise, few of us actually noticed the red herring until now.

[beetnemesis]

I love this (and TVTropes).  I love using the idea of "what was the author thinking" when trying to predict plot twists.

Another thing that I like reminding people is that it is in Proven Guilty where we first learn the basic theory of the rules of time travel.  Don't cause paradoxes, predictions have to be vague because otherwise they'll invalidate the prediction, etc.

But the thing is, the plot of Proven Guilty essentially has NOTHING to do with time travel.  The Gatekeeper didn't have to use oracular powers to warn Harry.   

There are two possible Doyalist (out of character) reasons time travel is brought up (and discussed for a few pages, even):

1. Jim was writing the Dresden Files RPG at the time, and had just formalized the rules himself, and wanted to show them off.

2. Jim was laying groundwork for the time travel book we KNOW is coming, and therefore had had to formalize the rules, at least for himself.

[Serack]

1. Thomas let the Gate Keeper in (either knowing or unknowing). The Gate Keeper then fixed LC. This all hinges on the Gate Keeper’s pre-cog abilities and the fact that the Gate Keeper got Harry pointed in the right direction. Maybe the Gate Keeper was even working with/for Mab as it seems much of what else that happened in PG was of Mab’s design. So I don’t see it as a stretch that Mab and the Gate Keeper were in cahoots with each other. 
Or

Intersting.  This gets me thinking... Whoever Thomas could have let in would have to be someone that doesn't care about a WCV living with Harry or flat out knows their relationship.  It also inspires some other thoughts that if expressed, I fear could lead to derailment.  I'd rather hear more opinions like this one first.

Edit:  Also, the fact that Thomas greeted Harry with the sawed off Shot Gun at the beginning of Ch 18 when he is coming in the door made me think that maybe he was particularly jumpy at the time, and wonder how that flavors this theory.  I started going down the train of thought that maybe the perp was still in the appt at the time, but if so, Mouse would have probably keyed in on a veiled exit.

I love this (and TVTropes).  I love using the idea of "what was the author thinking" when trying to predict plot twists.

Another thing that I like reminding people is that it is in Proven Guilty where we first learn the basic theory of the rules of time travel.  Don't cause paradoxes, predictions have to be vague because otherwise they'll invalidate the prediction, etc.

But the thing is, the plot of Proven Guilty essentially has NOTHING to do with time travel.  The Gatekeeper didn't have to use oracular powers to warn Harry.   

There are two possible Doyalist (out of character) reasons time travel is brought up (and discussed for a few pages, even):

1. Jim was writing the Dresden Files RPG at the time, and had just formalized the rules himself, and wanted to show them off.

2. Jim was laying groundwork for the time travel book we KNOW is coming, and therefore had had to formalize the rules, at least for himself.

Jim didn't write the DFRPG, he just read over it and told them things like, "You can't use that, I won't be revealing it until much later in the series."  However, seeing their writeup might have motivated him to flesh out the points for your #2.