An idea for modeling completely untrained magical talent

[Mr. Death]

To me, making something an aspect makes it a fairly important part of the character--the aspects are the core of who and what the character is, after all. And I'd argue that being related to a deity of some kind is a pretty important part of a given character.

But in any case, I go back to what I said before: If it's something internal--if the luck is radiating off this merc because he, himself, is some kind of luck avatar--it should be a power of his. If it's external--if the luck is the result of an association and not something that's part of who and what he is--then he's still a mortal for whom some supernatural connection would be fine.

[Richard_Chilton]

One of the things that bugs me when I look at a list like that is you are looking at the means and not the end.

Exactly.

A wizard can kill with a lightening bolt.  A Pure Mortal can kill with a sniper's rifle.  Same ends, different means.

If someone is good at poker because he's a natural or because he's studied the game or because he's played fifty thousand games, then that's one thing.  If someone if good at poker because his grandfather is a luck spirit, then that's another thing.  The end results is someone who is good at poker, but the means are different.

Another example:
Dresden is fast on his feet - a good runner - because he works at it.  He jogs, runs, and works out.
Thomas is fast on his feet - a good runner - because he is a White Court Vampire.
Same ends - difference means.

Richard

[Richard_Chilton]

The Pure Mortal bonus being associated solely with the Pure Mortal template within the RAW is thus easily explained by the Pure Mortal template being the only template existing in the RAW that is barred from supernatural Powers.

But it is not the only existing template that can enter play without taking powers.  A changeling has a Musts of +0 - the same as a Pure Mortal.  If your logic is correct then there would be a note or sidebar explaining that Changelings receive the +2 until they take their first power.

There isn't.

Richard

[Tedronai]

The Changeling template is not barred from supernatural Powers.

[Richard_Chilton]

No - but they can start at +0.

It appears that what you is a series of custom templates based off of the Pure Mortal one.  All of them with the template description of "Pure mortals are ordinary (or mundanely extraordinary!) people who don’t have anything supernatural going on—save perhaps for the company they keep or the things they’ve seen." removed.

If that is the case, then that's wonderful for your homebrew game.

Richard

[sinker]

If that is the case, then that's wonderful for your homebrew game.

I'm still confused as to how you could hold this view, when you yourself posted the quote from Fred saying that until you have powers, you are mechanically a pure mortal and retain the refresh bonus.

Seems clear what the developer's intent was, and doesn't that have an impact on how we should interpret the RAW?

[Richard_Chilton]

I don't see that the RAW need a huge deal of interpretation on this point.

The Template isn't a complicated one.  Some people have fixated on one sentence in one part without looking at the whole.

I put it to you that a character who doesn't fit the "don’t have anything supernatural going on" don't qualify for the Pure Mortal template and must choose another template OR come up with a homebrew template that somehow gives that bonus.  Since none of the other templates (including those whose musts allow 0 Powers) grant the +2 refresh bonus that bonus doesn't apply to them.  Mechanically, those who do get the +2 bonus (i.e. Pure Mortals or homebrew templates) retain that +2 until they add a power.

This position covers the RAW and Fred's answer.

Richard

[sinker]

Except that the last thing Fred said was "Before you buy powers, you are mechanically a pure mortal." Not you retain the mortal bonus, but you are pure mortal.

How does that fit with what you're saying?

[Richard_Chilton]

How does the write of the Changeling template mesh with your view?

Seriously, please explain to how a Changeling with no powers is a Pure Mortal - because I can't see it.

Richard

[sinker]

It easily meshes. A changeling with no powers is a pure mortal with a Fey parent. Just because you fit the musts for a template (in the case of changelings having a Fey parent) does not mean you must take that template.

[Richard_Chilton]

It easily meshes. A changeling with no powers is a pure mortal with a Fey parent. Just because you fit the musts for a template (in the case of changelings having a Fey parent) does not mean you must take that template.

No, a Changeling with no powers is a half mortal who has the powers of fairy running through their veins.  Their powers can increase in a heartbeat.  As the template says, that's the point.

Just as the write up for Pure Mortal template says that Pure Mortals have nothing supernatural going on.

That's the RAW.  That's Jim's setting as written.  You are welcome to change it for your game, but that involves homebrew rules.

If you want a custom Template, I'd say
Template: Unaware Changeling.
Synopses: You're Meryl before she had to pull that tractor off of her half-brother.  You have the blood of the Fae running through your veins, allowing instant access to certain powers (work out with the GM what these powers are; in all cases they should be based on the powers that your non-human parent possesses).  Since you are ignorant of your heritage, you cannot choose mortality (i.e. you cannot renounce your heritage in ignorance).
Musts: No powers (allowing you +2 refresh bonus as a variant of Pure Mortal.  Note that this bonus will vanish when you activate your first power and switch to the Changeling Template.  If this causes your current Refresh level to drop below 1, you become an NPC.

---

There.  A short, homebrew template that fits what you are looking for.

Richard

[Tedronai]

Richard, in games you run, do you have players who want characters other than their own to be compelled invoke an aspect for effect to trigger a compel from you (as the GM), which is then funded and negotiated by you?

[sinker]

No, a Changeling with no powers is a half mortal who has the powers of fairy running through their veins.  Their powers can increase in a heartbeat.  As the template says, that's the point.

You asked how the changeling fits with my view. I told you and you responded with "No that's wrong." If you ask for my opinion don't get uppity when I tell you.

[Richard_Chilton]

You asked how the changeling fits with my view. I told you and you responded with "No that's wrong." If you ask for my opinion don't get uppity when I tell you.

Sorry if I sounded gotcha there.

The reason I mentioned it is in the thread above.  I pointed out that something would be homebrew and you asked how I could hold the view that doing that would be homebrewed.  I explained my view and asked for yours.

Perhaps I should have responded to your view with:
Do you feel that the way the changeling fits with you view fits the RAW?

I ask, because in the RAW Changelings do not receive the Pure Mortal refresh bonus.

Richard

[Richard_Chilton]

Richard, in games you run, do you have players who want characters other than their own to be compelled invoke an aspect for effect to trigger a compel from you (as the GM), which is then funded and negotiated by you?

I'm sorry, I can't see how this relates to the discussion at hand.

Or maybe I'm just having problems parsing the above sentence.  My guess is that it means:
Have a player who want another player's PC to be compelled invoke an aspect to start something rolling - and have the GM handle all the wording and pay all of the FATE chips involve.

But I'm not sure if you are talking about Player A invoking one of his PC's own aspects or a Player A wanting to have Player B's PC's aspect invoked.

Regardless, I do not see how it relates to the topic at hand.  Perhaps you could start a new thread with a better worded question?

Richard