DFRPG In Other Time P... *AHEM!* Yadda-Yadda, Something About Claws and Stuff.

[InFerrumVeritas]

For antiquity, I'd go with failed crops.  That's why they lived on their own islands.

I like the idea of turning wine to vinegar for any hexing pre-20th century.

[Sanctaphrax]

Well, the world's power balance is slanted against us mortals back in the past. But that matters little to PCs.

Aren't hunting rifles and really big handguns weapon 3? I've always thought of weapon 3 as the standard weapon rating for a gun-using PC.

[Anher]

Aren't hunting rifles and really big handguns weapon 3? I've always thought of weapon 3 as the standard weapon rating for a gun-using PC.

Rifles are a weapon 3, as are the oversized pistols, otherwise pistols fall into the weapon 2. So it depends on whether said gun toting PC is walking around with a rifle or most pistols for what the 'standard' weapon rating is.

[UmbraLux]

Aren't hunting rifles and really big handguns weapon 3? I've always thought of weapon 3 as the standard weapon rating for a gun-using PC.

Quite possibly...but neither is really concealable.  So calling them the standard requires adjusting modern norms significantly. 

[Sanctaphrax]

Generally speaking, I assume that the noise and obviousness of a gunshot makes the non-concealable nature of a rifle trivial. And even if you need to hide your weapon for whatever reason, a big gun is easier to hide than a big sword.

Modern norms generally don't include much about killing vampires. Anything standard for a DFRPG PC requires adjusting modern norms significantly.

[UmbraLux]

Use isn't the issue as much as travel.  If you don't have it with you, it doesn't matter how much damage it does or how quiet it isn't.  And I haven't seen anyone wandering around town with a rifle for decades.   

[Sanctaphrax]

Eh. Stick it in a duffel bag.

Or if it's just a big pistol, hide it under your coat.

Not significantly harder than hiding a small gun, most of the time.

[UmbraLux]

Hehe, we set our game in Washington DC.  So not nearly as easy as you make it sound.  Even in other cities, at least in the US, walking around public areas with large duffle bags and / or suspicious bulges under jacket (what do you do in summer?) will get you looked at suspiciously.  Given all the oddball things PCs tend to do, official notice won't be far behind. 

Certainly not saying solutions are impossible - just don't see them as common.  An assassin style briefcase would work for many situations.  But a rifle would require some set up.  Perhaps a Desperado style guitar case is the solution!  Perhaps we need a Highlander style "pull weapon from --s" stunt!   

[Mr. Death]

Eh. Stick it in a duffel bag.

Or if it's just a big pistol, hide it under your coat.

Not significantly harder than hiding a small gun, most of the time.

Speaking from experience, long guns are, well, long. And they'd have to be stuffed with other stuff in a dufflebag to not be obvious, and as someone noted, nobody just walks around with a dufflebag all over the place. It's very suspicious.

The most that you'd realistically be able to carry around with you without anyone noticing is probably a Weapon:2 pistol if you're going to be walking around anything resembling a major city.

[Silverblaze]

I do understand the "need" to make guns or swords hard to carry around in public for the PC's. 

However, it falls apart in the following ways:

-claws are weapon: 2 and concealable
-inhuman/supernatural/mythic powers are concealable
-wizard spells are concealable
-shapechangers are concealable

Those are often more dangerous than a PC walking around with a weapon 1 - 4 (gun, sword, rock, fish tank, etc. etc.)  Punishing players for character flavor will only make your PC's play things that are more efficient and less varied.

Talk about FATE/DFRPG being more about narrative than the game all you want - but deep down, the plauyers are goign to note it is simply easier to play something that doesn't need tools for combat.  That way a good portion of the game isn't about avoiding law enforcement - which many PC's will find boring or a novelty at best.

I'm not saying never have reality come into play.  I'm not saying don't complicate PC's lives...but some people on this forum seem to take great sadistic glee from making players who like to use guns or swords PC's life difficult. 

[Mr. Death]

Point of fact, Claws are not concealable unless you have a shapeshifting power.

The strength, spells, and etc. are concealable, yes, but they cost refresh--carrying a gun or a sword doesn't. And yes, those powers make them dangerous, which is rather the point. The lives of the PCs are supposed to be complicated by these kinds of things.

That said, a PC should certainly get a fate point if their tools can't be used for some reason. I've given fate points to a Warden PC to say he couldn't get his sword into somewhere, for instance.

[MAK]

... and it's not just about weapons, either. Hexing makes the use of pretty much any tech (basic communications, long distance travel, research with computers, etc, etc) hard/impossible for supernaturals and they must come up with magical alternatives. When you go to an earlier time period, these magical alternatives are still possible - but the mundane tech is not yet there.

So the balance shifts. Whether that is good or bad is of course up to the campaign, but it is a fact that should be understood when deciding to play in other time periods.

[Sanctaphrax]

Point of fact, Claws are not concealable unless you have a shapeshifting power.

Have I ever mentioned that I hate that rule?

Oh, and MAK? Hexing does not work that way. Most supernaturals don't hex, and those that do should be grateful for it because it actually makes them more powerful.

See, normally hexing takes the form of compels, which are neither good nor bad. But hexing can also be intentional, which is completely good.

So removing hexing from wizards actually makes them weaker.

[UmbraLux]

  Punishing players for character flavor will only make your PC's play things that are more efficient and less varied.

Talk about FATE/DFRPG being more about narrative than the game all you want - but deep down, the plauyers are goign to note it is simply easier to play something that doesn't need tools for combat.  That way a good portion of the game isn't about avoiding law enforcement - which many PC's will find boring or a novelty at best.

I'm not saying never have reality come into play.  I'm not saying don't complicate PC's lives...but some people on this forum seem to take great sadistic glee from making players who like to use guns or swords PC's life difficult.

Wow.  Such a broad brush used to indict so casually. 

Shrug.  My group signed on to play a modern urban fantasy.  One with most of the population ignorant.  (Even though that may be a stretch.)  Public battles, running around with rifles, and many overt magics are avoided to maintain an illusion of normalcy.  Not as some oddball type of "punishment".

We chose not to play an overtly supernatural campaign.  Though a post apocalyptic version is an idea I've played with...

[Silverblaze]

Point of fact, Claws are not concealable unless you have a shapeshifting power.

The strength, spells, and etc. are concealable, yes, but they cost refresh--carrying a gun or a sword doesn't. And yes, those powers make them dangerous, which is rather the point. The lives of the PCs are supposed to be complicated by these kinds of things.

That said, a PC should certainly get a fate point if their tools can't be used for some reason. I've given fate points to a Warden PC to say he couldn't get his sword into somewhere, for instance.

No pockets or gloves?

Also as Sanctaphrax says: no claws powers exist with retractable claws?  I find that very odd.

Hey, if you are sure your table approves of the setting and difficulties surrounding weapons; more power to you.  If you ask though the answers may surpirse you, or maybe not; they might surprise me.  i agree they deserve a fate point if they can't use the tools available to them.

Also, do your villains ever run into as many legal entanglements?  Would you allow players to make declarations stopping the antagonists from having their guns etc.?  I assume the answer is yes, but if it isn't that seems a little skewed to me.