Magic-eating Termites?

[computerking]

Has anyone worked up something that is useful against players who have become a little too complacent with their wards? Some kind of Thaumaphage that likes to munch on strong, long-standing effects, perhaps. How would their “Magic Eater” power work? As a Counterspell? As an attack? Could it cause Ward Traps to spring unpredictably?

And would using something like this in a story be seen as unfair to a player who expects/wants their warded home to be inviolate?

[devonapple]

Magic-eating termites could be a compelling one-time scenario, as part of a greater case or campaign against a particular foe that deploys the things to weaken opposition.

Magic-eating termites could be compelling flavor for a particular location, but it would add a housekeeping/nuisance tax component to the game. Could be fun for some groups, might be an onerous chore for others.

But thresholds/wards have three jobs in the game:
1) act as a zone of narrative plot immunity allowing the players to focus on the task at hand, not on where they can safely sleep at night
2) act as Worf/canary in a coal mine/bellwether to indicate just how serious a situation/opponent is, when it starts attacking or subverting them
3) minor complication opportunities, such as whether or not you trust [insert name] enough to key them into your warded domain

Subverting wards for the sake of subverting wards (or generally making players uncomfortable outside of a situation they got themselves into) sounds like a bad idea to me.

[UmbraLux]

Has anyone worked up something that is useful against players who have become a little too complacent with their wards?

Hasn't been a major issue yet - the players aren't keeping anything at home anyone else may want.  And they're easily found elsewhere...so there hasn't been a reason to go after them at home.  (Though one did have a 'message' left for him in the form of a cabinet thrown through a window.  Not something wards are generally going to affect - though he did add a barrier afterwards.)

Some kind of Thaumaphage that likes to munch on strong, long-standing effects, perhaps. How would their “Magic Eater” power work? As a Counterspell? As an attack? Could it cause Ward Traps to spring unpredictably?

Allow me to ask a question - what would this 'thaumaphage' add to the story?  Unless you're running a horror campaign I'm not a big fan of nameless, faceless threats.  Bokor Joseph wanting to steal your soul / magic is much more interesting to me. 

And would using something like this in a story be seen as unfair to a player who expects/wants their warded home to be inviolate?

If it amounts to 'GM negates all the effort put into X' I'd expect them to be irritated.  But give them a target, a reason, and make it important to the story and you probably won't have any complaints...even if the action is the same.  It's the difference between "all your locks rusted overnight leaving you defenseless" and "that guy you put in jail last year is out - and he appears to have shattered all your locks in the process of breaking in..."  The result is the same but one is a fairly boring* faceless action while the other is a threat to be sought out and dealt with.

*Boring unless you're running a game built around figuring out how and why locks can rust overnight.  Then it might be an interesting introduction.

[Sanctaphrax]

There's quite a lot of anti-magic stuff on the Custom Powers Master List.

Antimagic Field [Minor Power; -1]
Antimagic Field: Evocation spells cast within your zone inflict one extra mental stress on the caster.

Magic Eater[-2] -  Anyone who makes the mistake of targeting a magic eater with magic shouldn't be surprised when it back fires dramatically.
When ever targeted by magic a magic eater can spend their turn in advance to wrestle control of a spell from the caster (direct discipline contest). Succeeding this contest allows the magic eater to redirect the spell to his chosen target.

Mana Locust (Vampirism; -2)
Detect Magic: Within your zone, you may attempt to detect the presence of magic (defined as effects created by or individuals possessing Spellcasting Powers) via an Alertness or Investigation roll. Success provides awareness of the presence of magic, and identifies individuals with Spellcasting Powers if you are already aware of them.
Magic Drain: Whenever an effect created by a Spellcasting Power originates from or targets your zone, its effectiveness is reduced by two shifts.
Mageslayer: Add +1 to close personal combat attacks made against characters possessing Spellcasting Powers.

Mana Plague (Vampirism; -1)
Musts: Mana Locust
Magic Drought: Magic Drain reduces three shifts of power.
The Taste of Death: Once per scene, if you inflict enough stress and consequences from feeding to kill a character with Spellcraft Powers, you may take an immediate "free" recovery period equal to an extra scene.

None of this has been revised yet, so use at your own risk.

[UmbraLux]

Has anyone worked up something that is useful against players who have become a little too complacent with their wards?

One other comment on wards in particular - it's really not that difficult to bypass or destroy them.  In some ways it's easier than creating them.  The only real limitation is time.  It fits when you apply security principles, but that's a discussion for another time*.

Using a simple ward as an example, say something like this:

• 16 shift ward consisting of:
  • Ward 8 (8 shifts)
  • duration of a year (8 shifts)
• shifts received from the following sources:
  • 5 - Lore
  • 1 - Wards Complexity specialization
  • 2 - Barrier Runes Scribed on Exterior Walls
    
  • 2 - Wardstones Placed at Foundation Corners
    
  • 2 - Ceremonial Circle...used to summon power
  • 2 - Alternating White and Black Candles...used to summon power
  • 2 - Mentally Focused...used to summon power

The bold aspects should be easy to discover via assessments.  All should be discoverable, those are simply viewable whether or not you can assess the wards themselves.  Those aspects can be used by the discoverer, invoked for bonuses to attacking / dispelling the ward or, if the situation warrants it, compelled / invoked for effect to destroy or change those aspects - reducing the ward's power.  The attacker can use his own declarations / maneuvers on more aspects as well - or simply tag all of the ward creator's aspects he was able to assess.  Or both.  The only real limitation is time - except for extremely powerful evokers (or some sponsored mages), this will be at thaumaturgy's speeds. 

All a ward really does against serious attackers is slow them down and allow the inhabitants time to respond.  Of course that's all a bank vault does also...which is why you want ward candles (alarm systems) and friends (police) ready to respond. 

*In brief:  security relies on three things: detecting threats, stopping or slowing threats, and responding effectively to said threat before your stop/slow defense was penetrated. 

[Richard_Chilton]

We're seen magic fleas (in Day Off), so why not termites?

When it comes to superwards, another way to look at them is the effect that they have on others.  Are they stretching ley lines or otherwise causing disruptions in the flow of mystic energy? Are they making blind spots in other casters' divinations?

I'm thinking:
"Okay, my spell couldn't find find Joe.  That means that he might be dead or he might be in the Nevernever - but since Joe's not a mage that's not likely.  It could also mean that he's behind an exceptionally strong threshold, so we can check the major churches.  It might even mean that he's inside a warded area, but again - Joe's no mage.  Or maybe he's on the other side of that huge ward on Smith Street.  Yeah, there's a section of town that I can't search because some A%#*$@E has his wards set too strong.  Look, you guys start checking the churches while I do the spell again - this time on the other side of Smith Street."

I can see the Little Folk going "Oh, pretty ward" if it's strong enough to attract their attention.  I can see other mages going "What's he hiding behind that thing".  And maybe the Wardens want to know too.  Yes, there can be all sorts of social implications for someone who builds a fortress like house in the middle of a city.

Richard

[UmbraLux]

We're seen magic fleas (in Day Off), so why not termites?

To clarify my stance, I'm not saying "don't use magic bugs" so much as "make sure whatever you use matters to the story".  In other words, have a goal in mind beyond simply screwing with a character's wards.

[Richard_Chilton]

I understood that - but was just making a (late) reply to the original post.

Hmmm.  As foreshadowing to their wards interfering with others, they could have some of their spells interfered it by an NPC magic user.

Richard

[Orladdin]

We're seen magic fleas (in Day Off), so why not termites?

When it comes to superwards, another way to look at them is the effect that they have on others.  Are they stretching ley lines or otherwise causing disruptions in the flow of mystic energy? Are they making blind spots in other casters' divinations?

I'm thinking:
"Okay, my spell couldn't find find Joe.  That means that he might be dead or he might be in the Nevernever - but since Joe's not a mage that's not likely.  It could also mean that he's behind an exceptionally strong threshold, so we can check the major churches.  It might even mean that he's inside a warded area, but again - Joe's no mage.  Or maybe he's on the other side of that huge ward on Smith Street.  Yeah, there's a section of town that I can't search because some A%#*$@E has his wards set too strong.  Look, you guys start checking the churches while I do the spell again - this time on the other side of Smith Street."

This is pretty awesome, actually.  I might borrow this concept.

I can see the Little Folk going "Oh, pretty ward" if it's strong enough to attract their attention.  I can see other mages going "What's he hiding behind that thing".  And maybe the Wardens want to know too.  Yes, there can be all sorts of social implications for someone who builds a fortress like house in the middle of a city...

This one I'm less fond of.  We've seen how many predators and nasty random badness that can move around unchecked; even in cities.  I don't think anyone would fault a wizard for building a neon-vegas-brightness ward, especially if you're playing in the time period of the default setting (The Red War).

[sinker]

I actually love the concept of social implications to strong wards (though thematically I think you're right Orladdin) mostly because social implications usually mean social consequences (provided of course that it's subtly done). The warden's not going to bust down your door and chop off your head cause he doesn't have any real reason to suspect you of black magic. He's just going to be nosy or curious. Show up occasionally and try to look around. Other wizards aren't going to crack your wards just to get a peek. They're going to sidle up to you in bars and try to get you talking shop. I think it's a really cool idea.

[Orladdin]

... Other wizards aren't going to crack your wards just to get a peek. They're going to sidle up to you in bars and try to get you talking shop. I think it's a really cool idea.

This could still happen-- after all, "Someone who can make wards that strong would be a powerful ally with mighty secrets."

[Bruce Coulson]

Forget termites.

Monstrous, mechanical, metal-munching moon mice are much better for ruining a wizard's day.  (Or a cool story seed; or both.)

[Silverblaze]

Death Curse : Magical crabs!

D'oh!