Construct AI

[yrtalien]

OK guys my player has another question I need help with:

He would like to use Thumaturgy to create some "ectoplasmic-bodied" protectors for his Sanctum.

He would like it to be "manned" / "piloted" by an AI as per Our World p.31
"Continual guidance requires ongoing energy
and attention; again, creating an AI for a golem
requires a lot of up-front energy."

Unfortunately other than the references under Constructs (Our World p31) there are no real hard rules that we can find on how to do this.

He's ready to give up on the idea, after I tried explaining Dresden is a little loose on rules like that (he likes crunch). 

Can anyone help us?

Sorry for all the bother,
Thanks

[sinker]

Devon has a thread with proposed houserules for creating constructs. I can't for the life of me find it though.

Hey Devon? You link me the thread and I'll submit it for the resources.

No wait, I found it! Cause I'm awesome!

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,23624.0.html

...And submitted for the resources board.

[UmbraLux]

Can anyone help us?

From your description, I'd treat them as part of a ward.  Build them as one or more ward 'traps' and flavor them as constructs.

[Sanctaphrax]

You can find a summary of that thread here.

Not sure if treating guards as a landmine would work. Landmines only trigger when wards are breached, after all, and they just hit once each time.

[Richard_Chilton]

You could always make the AI an NPC - write it up with aspects as if it was a PC.  Even if one of those aspects was "I love my maker" there's still plenty of room for drama there.

Now I'm thinking about the second Amber series where someone made an AI and things didn't always work out with it.  Called Ghostwheel, it was as much a character of that series as any Amberite.

Richard

[UmbraLux]

Not sure if treating guards as a landmine would work. Landmines only trigger when wards are breached, after all, and they just hit once each time.

The trigger is adjustable and you can have multiple triggers - of course that does up the cost.  As for hitting once, multiple landmines triggered serially is the brute force solution.  However, I think I'd prefer a power splitting method as discussed in a recent thread on extending attacks - it's simpler and gives the construct "health" in the form of shifts of attack power.

[Sanctaphrax]

But wouldn't it be better and simpler to model the creatures as creatures?

[UmbraLux]

But wouldn't it be better and simpler to model the creatures as creatures?

Depends on your approach and on what part of the game mechanics you want to emphasize at the time.  Remember, FATE gives us the tools to simulate something and to modify the narrative directly. 

I'll probably model it as a hazard to be survived and overcome when I set up my next BBEG ward.  (PCs are still dealing with apprentices.)  That's taking inspiration from Fred's blog posts rather than directly from the game.  But I tend to lean towards narrative mechanics over adding additional simulation mechanics.  Your answer, and others', may be entirely different from mine.   

[GryMor]

Hmm, any complexity estimates on something like Kage-Bunshin? That is, an ecto plasm construct clone of the caster with no available consequences.

For specialized uses it's relatively simple (whats the task this clone is doing? The what sets the complexity, that it's done with a clone doesn't figure in to it). For the general case, I have no clue.

[ways and means]

I would just treat it like a glamour/veil a block vs alertness, because the clones hp doesn't matter if the attacker isn't fooled.

[Sanctaphrax]

Hmm, any complexity estimates on something like Kage-Bunshin? That is, an ecto plasm construct clone of the caster with no available consequences.

For specialized uses it's relatively simple (whats the task this clone is doing? The what sets the complexity, that it's done with a clone doesn't figure in to it). For the general case, I have no clue.

A dude named Revlid, who you may be familiar with from his Exalted homebrewing, took a crack at a multiple body power here.

It's far from perfect, but it's certainly a valiant attempt.

[GryMor]

I would just treat it like a glamour/veil a block vs alertness, because the clones hp doesn't matter if the attacker isn't fooled.

That would be one of the specialized cases. The more general case is when I need to be working on a ritual at the same time the party needs to do leg work and they need some of my skills along for the ride, but it's unspecified at casting time which the will need... I suppose I could just go for thaumaturgical skill substitution putting the complexity at the sum of the skills the clone can do plus manauvers to give it tags for their use (since it won't get to roll).

[ways and means]

Sorry I was thinking of the substitution tecnique rather than mass shadow clones my bad.

[devonapple]

The really simple thing, rather than figure out rules, is to:
1) get an idea what the player needs this construct to do
2) figure out a Resources/Contacts difficulty for hiring a mortal to do the same job, factoring in any complications you want to add to the construct
3) convert that to Thaumaturgy shifts
4) determine if the construct is always there, or "summoned" to deal with an intrusion: if always there, factor that duration into hiring DC, starting with a base duration of 1 scene; if summoned, add 2 to the summoning DC for each construct to make it a triggered effect, and *then* figure out duration.

The super simple (though expensive) means is to summon up enough shifts to kill the entity you want to create (26-36 or so), effectively summoning a character from scratch.

[GryMor]

The super simple (though expensive) means is to summon up enough shifts to kill the entity you want to create (26-36 or so), effectively summoning a character from scratch.

Or 9 shifts if the entity can't take any consequences (fragile ectoplasm clone/projection of the caster)? (4 for the best stress track, 4 for a maxed resistance roll, 1 to take out, doesn't get any of the casters powers)
That is actually low enough for no special prep thaumaturgy, but not quite low enough to skip paying for duration...