Author Topic: How to make this an IoP?  (Read 4420 times)

Offline GryMor

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Re: How to make this an IoP?
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2012, 07:30:09 AM »
Unfortunately this does not work. "Mortal magic" already gets the max possible specific-ness bonus.

Where is the Mortal magic one described? I can only find Immunity to (mortal?) magic as a stacked catch on creatures that already have a +3 base catch. That leaves it having a few issues when it comes to being a definitive example of catch valuation. First, there is the (mortal?) specification (it may be broader than Harry knows). Second, the availability may be a bit tricky on account of the base toughness/recovery powers having a cold iron catch, thirdly, the stacked nature may make it harder to work out that there are two levels of effect in play, making the research portion +1. I believe it's the second issue that put's it at +5 instead of +6, but YMMV.

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: How to make this an IoP?
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2012, 09:30:47 PM »
Not going by examples here, examples are unreliable. I'm using the actual rules.

Specific-ness can only make a Catch worth +4. The other possible +2 comes from the public's knowledge. So immunity to the bites of four-year-old orphan girls with Mexican-British dual citizenship costs 4 if nobody knows about it.

Immunity to mortal magic protects against one thing and can be bypassed by anyone, so its Catch is worth +4 for specific-ness.

Doesn't make much sense, but it's the way it works.

Offline Mr. Death

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Re: How to make this an IoP?
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2012, 09:35:33 PM »
It's not so much from the public's knowledge as it is from how difficult it is to figure out. It's not at all difficult to figure out "anything but X," since anything they try aside from X will do the trick.

Think of it in terms of "what does a character have to do to figure out how to bypass the toughness." If just shooting literally anything except one specific thing will bypass the catch, then it's incredibly easy to get through it.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2012, 09:39:10 PM by Mr. Death »
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: How to make this an IoP?
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2012, 10:01:59 PM »
Okay then, maybe "only against mortal magic" and "only against Outsider magic" should both be +6 Catches. That'd make OW wrong, but whatever. Doesn't change what I said at all.

Offline GryMor

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Re: How to make this an IoP?
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2012, 12:59:34 AM »
Okay then, maybe "only against mortal magic" and "only against Outsider magic" should both be +6 Catches. That'd make OW wrong, but whatever. Doesn't change what I said at all.

How would that make OW wrong? Per my previous message, the only examples in OW are stacked catches on a creature that has other toughness/recovery powers and a hard to bypass primary catch and aren't definitively just mortal magic. These issues may confound the costing and make them bad examples to judge the correct general costing of a simple catch that is bypassed by anything except mortal magic.

Offline Becq

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Re: How to make this an IoP?
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2012, 01:56:44 AM »
The Grendelkin has an magic immunity (worded as "standard mortal magic or perhaps just fire", but it's still of 'equivalent specificness' as far as the rules go) pair with a +0 baseline Catch.  So a magic-specific Stacked Catch is always priced at +5, regardless of baseline Catch.  I'm assuming that all of them are priced exactly as the example used for Stacked Catches: +2 for specific, +2 because not-magic is common, and +1 because research uncovers it.

That said, OW and YS don't really seem to use the same rules all the time, so comparing examples isn't always a perfect solution.  For example, by my read, the standard Fae Catch should probably be +4: +2 because iron is commonly available, and +2 because it's a trivial task to find info on the Catch by Googling it (assuming you didn't already know it).  My best guess is that the second value is treated as +1 based on it not always being obvious that the individual is in fact Fae to begin with, but that's just an attempt at rationalizing it.

Offline Mr. Death

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Re: How to make this an IoP?
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2012, 02:37:30 AM »
Okay then, maybe "only against mortal magic" and "only against Outsider magic" should both be +6 Catches. That'd make OW wrong, but whatever. Doesn't change what I said at all.
Having a look at it, now I'm thinking that the +1 includes "throw something at them and see what sticks" as a form of research.
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Offline Vargo Teras

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Re: How to make this an IoP?
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2012, 06:11:53 AM »
Having a look at it, now I'm thinking that the +1 includes "throw something at them and see what sticks" as a form of research.
I'd argue that it should be +2 if the things that won't stick are things that most people wouldn't even try in the list.  Mortal magic, while available to a limited number of people, is a thing that in most games will be on the short list of ways to deal with a supernatural opponent, about on the same tier as fire and bullets.  Outsider magic is a thing that the overwhelming majority of groups, PC or NPC, wouldn't even be able to try, much less think of as a first recourse.