Water mages and water as a barrier

[polkaneverdies]

How much does running water or large amounts of water impact a water mages ability to cast? I was under the impression that they were pretty much screwed like everyone else. I then stumbled across the following Woj which seems to cast some doubt on that assumption.

"2011 transcripts from audio/video WoJ sources thread
Q&A - Washington, D.C. August 1, 2011 - Part 6
Transcription by AcornArmy

Q: Harry's pentacle necklace. Thomas had one like it, why didn't he use it to try to find Harry's body?

A: Can't use magic through that much water. Unless you're a water mage, but nobody called Injun Joe."


So my question is how do you guys run it?

[devonapple]

Invoke High Concept with a Fate Point to negate the Threshold caused by the water?

[Serack]

*not an rpg player*

Remember the fomor in Even Hand had no trouble with flowing water. 

(click to show/hide)

the fire alarm fizzled - but not before setting off the automatic sprinklers.  Water began pouring down from spigots in the ceiling.
Mag looked up at the water and then down at me, and his too-wide smile widened even more.  "Really?" he asked.  "Water?  Did you actually think water would be a barrier to the magic of a fomor lord?"
Running water was highly detrimental to mortal magic, or so Gard informed me, weather it was naturally occuring or not.  The important element was quantity.  Enough water would ground magic just as it could conduct electricty and short-circuit electronics.  Evidently mag played by different rules.

Edit to add:  Earlier in the story Gard tells Marcone that "The fomor pratice entropy magic." [finish edit]

Something tells me that Water Mages approach magic from a substantially different... paradigm such that water may have different qualities.  Look at the comments that Billy makes about how Harry and Bob's PoV on shape shifting is spell centric but an actual shape shifter is likely to have a completely different paradigm that probably has it's own set of rules (somewhere around page 83 of your story).  (well I'm adding a lot of interpretation there)

Generaly water magic is a force of entropy... inhibiting magic, tearing appart projectiles in Carlos' shield... but I'm guessing it can also be used as a basis of creation like LTW's healing magic.

Interestingly enough, Fire is also a purifying force that can disrupt magic too... if one were to theorize, there might be some dicotomy here that I am not sure where to go with.  Maybe disrupt a water mage's tracking spell with a burnin ring of fire?

[Sanctaphrax]

They're screwed like everyone else. WoJ is not RAW.

[Belial666]

Actually, they aren't. The book also mentions a water mage's relationship with water. Besides, sources of running water are typically Fair (+2) thresholds according to the book. They aren't that powerful to begin with and also there's something like this;

[+0] Entropy Magic
Your affiliation with water and entropy changes some of the rules of magic for you. First, water poses no impediment to your power at all. Secondly, fire poses the impediment water would have. Third, your hexing is 1 step worse/stronger both in accidental and in voluntary hexing.

[sinker]

I'm with Devon. Invoke for effect to ignore the water.

Besides if water shorted out water mages then wouldn't they short themselves out on a regular basis? That would be obnoxious to say the least.

[Sanctaphrax]

The book also mentions a water mage's relationship with water.

Really? Where?

[Belial666]

It's a sidelines discussion between Harry and Bob under the "water" element explanation. Making a search for "running water" will quickly get you there.

[Sanctaphrax]

That specifies that water mages don't get blocked by their own spells. It doesn't say that they don't get blocked by water in general.

In fact, I'd say that it implies the opposite.

[Silverblaze]

They're screwed like everyone else. WoJ is not RAW.

Many parts of RAW in many games, this one included are open to interpretation.

That excerpt from Even Hand is not a word of Jim but fact from novels.  Technically to be held even more sacred, especially to "cannoneers". ( my term for people who really like cannon)

That said, I would agree that water should bother mortal water mages.  Water Fae and Fomor not in the least.

If running a game I might be inclined to allow a fate point to be spent to avoid the effect of running water.

[Katarn]

IMO:

*FP to ignore a water effect.
*Or Thaumaturgy-at-Evocation's-speed (i.e. some base difficulty) to overcome it via their control of magic.

[InFerrumVeritas]

I'd require a fate point or Lore declaration (at Superb difficulty or so).