On the Utter Drek we write and Show verus Tell

[The Deposed King]

On another thread I comment on what I've read from other authors.  And it all comes down to this sort of Zen like acceptance of the crap we write and the need to let yourself write with the intention of coming back later to fix it during your 2nd and 3rd draft editing.

Here are a couple of links.  the first is on acceptance.  The other was a nice little article on Showing versus Telling.

http://www.ilona-andrews.com/writing-tricks/writing-crap#comments
http://www.ilona-andrews.com/writing-tricks/articles/show-dont-tell

Essentially if you are posting here, instead of on your own forum or blog.  And even if you are already a published author, you will look at your work and say ick.  Its the second and third passes after you've put the words down that make an exciting book people want to read.  For the most part anyway.




The Deposed King

[synthesis]

Perfect!  So I'm not paranoid when I "guard" what I'm working on and when I don't say anything to anyone about working on anything other than that "I've been writing."  It makes a lot of sense -- that whole cliche about two many "heads in the kitchen" or whatever it was (I might be mixing clichés)

Also loved the advice on revising.  That's been something I've been struggling with because every time I go back, I want to rip, rip, rip apart, which I've very slowly discovered is its own little "sickness"

[LizW65]

When I first took up writing after a hiatus of many years, I struggled a LOT with the idea that it had to be perfect right out of the starting gate.  It took a while to convince myself that the edit buttons were there for a reason, and it was OK to write crap the first time around.  (And I refuse to show my work to anyone unless it's up to a certain level, so I don't think the conventional writing workshop environment would work well for me.)

[Paynesgrey]

I tend to gravitate towards "showing" I suspect, mainly because it's more fun and gives me greater opportunities to do amusing things with my character's inner monologues.  But that doesn't mean I shouldn't go back through what I've written so far and look for obvious, dull telling, where it would be better to some showing.  Thanks for the links.

I'm not sure how much Drek I produce.  (Although since this, my first foray into painting with words, is basically as Star Trek fanfic that gradually shifts to my own original Trek characters, there are those who would argue that I'm Drekking by definition.... Hey, I like Star Trek, and I want more stories to happen there.)  *Puts on his Fighting Trousers.*   

Anyway, I tend to spin through the whole story, constantly in daydream cycle.  Envisioning, wording, re-wording, coming up with key scenes and (to me) killer lines that I jot down to use later.  I basically do rewrite after rewrite in my head, then when things go "KA-CHUNK!" into place, I sit down and hammer out a chapter or scene.  I still go back and polish and massage, then ship things off to my valued Tell Me If This Sucks Team of Experts.  (I pay Shecky in beef jerky.  Which reminds me I owe him a shipment.)  Then I implement or address the fixes, changes or corrections they point out to me, but at that point it's not what I'd call a re-write. 

[The Deposed King]

Perfect!  So I'm not paranoid when I "guard" what I'm working on and when I don't say anything to anyone about working on anything other than that "I've been writing."  It makes a lot of sense -- that whole cliche about two many "heads in the kitchen" or whatever it was (I might be mixing clichés)

Also loved the advice on revising.  That's been something I've been struggling with because every time I go back, I want to rip, rip, rip apart, which I've very slowly discovered is its own little "sickness"

I recieved some advice once.

"It boils down to don't cast pearls before swine"

If you have what you think is a pearl, don't put it in front of someone who is a swine and won't appreciate it.  You need someone who will appreciate what you're doing not automatically dump on it.

Now that doesn't mean that what you don't won't fail and fail spectacularly.  Nor that at some point you don't need some critisizing.  But when you are just getting started you need support and encouragement otherwise you'll give up.  Enthusiasm for an idea can carry you a long way all by its lonesome.

So don't go casting your pearls before swine and being surprised and discouraged when they poop all over it.  That's why you avoid the swine.

On the other hand.  Being a writer involves being told your stuff sucks.  Its the only way you're stuff will get good enough to be put out there and succeed.  So ra ra team until its done, then its find someone you can trust, to give you the down low.  I've found for myself that creating and editing require two different mindsets.  Never the two should twine.  Or at least not very often.  Editing kills creativity.  But editing is essential to producing something you can be proud of.  Conversely if you edit before its created most of us will lose our momentum and stop.

Its tricky.

Good luck with what you're doing.


The Deposed King

[The Deposed King]

I tend to gravitate towards "showing" I suspect, mainly because it's more fun and gives me greater opportunities to do amusing things with my character's inner monologues.  But that doesn't mean I shouldn't go back through what I've written so far and look for obvious, dull telling, where it would be better to some showing.  Thanks for the links.

I'm not sure how much Drek I produce.  (Although since this, my first foray into painting with words, is basically as Star Trek fanfic that gradually shifts to my own original Trek characters, there are those who would argue that I'm Drekking by definition.... Hey, I like Star Trek, and I want more stories to happen there.)  *Puts on his Fighting Trousers.*   

Anyway, I tend to spin through the whole story, constantly in daydream cycle.  Envisioning, wording, re-wording, coming up with key scenes and (to me) killer lines that I jot down to use later.  I basically do rewrite after rewrite in my head, then when things go "KA-CHUNK!" into place, I sit down and hammer out a chapter or scene.  I still go back and polish and massage, then ship things off to my valued Tell Me If This Sucks Team of Experts.  (I pay Shecky in beef jerky.  Which reminds me I owe him a shipment.)  Then I implement or address the fixes, changes or corrections they point out to me, but at that point it's not what I'd call a re-write.

If it works, don't stop and don't listen to anything that suggests you should change.  Keep it up!!!

That said, if it doesn't work.  Listen to Einstine and make a change.


have a blast,


The Deposed King

[synthesis]

On the other hand.  Being a writer involves being told your stuff sucks.  Its the only way you're stuff will get good enough to be put out there and succeed.  So ra ra team until its done, then its find someone you can trust, to give you the down low.  I've found for myself that creating and editing require two different mindsets.  Never the two should twine.  Or at least not very often.  Editing kills creativity.  But editing is essential to producing something you can be proud of.  Conversely if you edit before its created most of us will lose our momentum and stop.

The Deposed King

You know, that is such simple and obvious advice, but it's something I'd never even thought about before.  The past umpteen years, I've been doing a few completely different types of writing, one of which benefited from constant revision i.e. whenever I got stuck moving forward, I could go back and revise as I gathered my thoughts.  It didn't throw anything off, but just let me collect my thoughts and solidfy things.  Obviously, it was not fiction because, returning to fiction the past few months, I've realized my former method just does not work at all.  And you are right, the editing is killing the creativity.  I'm really not progressing when I go back, but looking for all the flaws.  Without the "whole picture" completed, my mental editor just says "this might not be good--change it" over and over

[The Deposed King]

You know, that is such simple and obvious advice, but it's something I'd never even thought about before.  The past umpteen years, I've been doing a few completely different types of writing, one of which benefited from constant revision i.e. whenever I got stuck moving forward, I could go back and revise as I gathered my thoughts.  It didn't throw anything off, but just let me collect my thoughts and solidfy things.  Obviously, it was not fiction because, returning to fiction the past few months, I've realized my former method just does not work at all.  And you are right, the editing is killing the creativity.  I'm really not progressing when I go back, but looking for all the flaws.  Without the "whole picture" completed, my mental editor just says "this might not be good--change it" over and over

Glad if anything |'ve said is helpful.

In another thread, or maybe its this one.  I wrote that you have to be willing to write the Drek and produce the stink bomb, after which you can then go back and put the puff on it.  Turning your ugly duckling into a peudious flower.

Editing is vital, don't get me wrong.  But it seems easier to go back and tweak thousands of words a day than it is to fire up the old creative juices and put thousands of words to processor.  That's why I say don't let anyone, not even yourself, get you down.

Line by line tweaking is great.  Its helpful, and if you've been away from teh story for weeks or months, maybe necessary to remember everything that's gone on.  But for me, if I edit too much, I'll never get anywhere.  I tear out as little as possible, after I get past the first 10k word.  by 10k I've mostly got my concept down and its time to flow it all out onto paper.  I can come back later and fix.

Not to say that if you already have a working process you should change.  If it works don't fix it.  If its not...

I wish you every success,

Remember to always follow the dream,


The Deposed King

[synthesis]

Yeah, I definitely did a fair bit of drek today.  I actually did go back and eliminate an entire conversation where a character was comparing herself to spaghetti-os.  But, I fiercely went with it as long as I could

[The Deposed King]

Yeah, I definitely did a fair bit of drek today.  I actually did go back and eliminate an entire conversation where a character was comparing herself to spaghetti-os.  But, I fiercely went with it as long as I could

 

For me I try to not to eliminate.  If comparing herself to spaghetti-os is not good.  Try something different or wait until the edititing team comes on board.  Then puff those spegetti-os into some super cool platinum fixture of your book.

Or not.  hey its your book and you need to make it how you want it.

I'm just adverse to deletions.  Revising, morphing, etc are all in my hand book.  Deletion... makes me shudder, unless it really is the Drek.


The Deposed King

[synthesis]

Yeah, I'm not so good at deleting.  Instead, it ends up in a file labeled "xxcutmaterial" because maybe I'll go back to it.  I never do, but hey, I'm a file pack-rat!

[The Deposed King]

Yeah, I'm not so good at deleting.  Instead, it ends up in a file labeled "xxcutmaterial" because maybe I'll go back to it.  I never do, but hey, I'm a file pack-rat!

Sounds like you've got it well in hand.

Keep up the good work and when the fails... take a page from the crab fishermen and go on the grind.



The Deposed King

[synthesis]

I grinded today (that really should be a real word."  I am very proud to announce that I completely realize the first half of my last chapter was completely forced drek   I had an idea that I don't think really fits anymore, but damn it, I was gonna write it

[The Deposed King]

I grinded today (that really should be a real word."  I am very proud to announce that I completely realize the first half of my last chapter was completely forced drek   I had an idea that I don't think really fits anymore, but damn it, I was gonna write it

I think the proper word is ground but whose keeping score  , certainly not me 

Best of luck with your writing.


The Deposed King

[Madd]

On another thread I comment on what I've read from other authors.  And it all comes down to this sort of Zen like acceptance of the crap we write and the need to let yourself write with the intention of coming back later to fix it during your 2nd and 3rd draft editing.

Here are a couple of links.  the first is on acceptance.  The other was a nice little article on Showing versus Telling.

http://www.ilona-andrews.com/writing-tricks/writing-crap#comments
http://www.ilona-andrews.com/writing-tricks/articles/show-dont-tell

Essentially if you are posting here, instead of on your own forum or blog.  And even if you are already a published author, you will look at your work and say ick.  Its the second and third passes after you've put the words down that make an exciting book people want to read.  For the most part anyway.




The Deposed King

Oh wow man, thank you very much.  Those articles were a tremendous help, just the Show v. Help thing alone was amazing.  The other was like icing on the cake!

Is there anyway we could get a "Tips and Tricks" sticky with links like those two for us struggling yet still aspiring writers?

By the way, I'm bad about using the "Tell" too damned much.  Really bad.  Thankfully knowing what the problem is will fix it.

I could never figure out why my writing was always so....abrupt.  Dry even.  I could take a scene where Harry Dresden is slagging demons with pillars of soul fire and still manage to wring all of the humor and feeling out of it.

Damned work, I blame them!