Refinements for Focused Practitioners

[Quazar]

Hey everyone, I posted on this topic quite awhile ago and I was wondering if positions have changed any. (Particularly given Mort's performance in GS)  I have suggested running with a houserule that allows FPs to use refinements to boost their abilities, but limiting it to -1 or -2 Lore instead of at their Lore level.  It just makes sense to me that FPs should be really badass at their discipline, and not get shown up by jack-of-all-trades wizards in their area of expertise.

EDIT: I should have mentioned that we generally cap the number of Focus Items/Enchanted Items one character can have.

[devonapple]

Some folks are considering that a more clever build for Mort would feature Sponsored Magic.

[Quazar]

Some folks are considering that a more clever build for Mort would feature Sponsored Magic.

I'm not sure if I buy that.  Mort gets his power from himself; he just occasionally uses it to draw power for his allied ghosts.  There's no suggestion in the books that he has some kind of patron.  He's exactly the kind of guy who would avoid that bond.

[devonapple]

Sponsored Magic doesn't necessarily have to reflect a single patron.

The justification for giving Mort that option is that he is, in some sense, tied to those ghosts, earning their cooperation insofar as he remains on good terms with them and their agendas/ethos/etc. It's not as hard a leap as it may initially seem. Sponsored Magic, from that perspective, is actually an incredibly clever way to get the variety of effects we've seen him able to perform now.

[Sanctaphrax]

I don't like Sponsored Magic for Mort. He really is an ectomancer. And I don't see what part of his powers Sponsored Magic allows that ectomancy doesn't.

My normal recommendations for people who want specializations for Focused Practitioners are:

a) Trade in the right to take foci for the right to take pyramid-less specializations.
or
b) Take Evocation with elements that are all basically the same as the original element. Like Heat, Smoke, and Fire.

[Becq]

b) Take Evocation with elements that are all basically the same as the original element. Like Heat, Smoke, and Fire.

A variation of this might be to build the character power-wise as a normal Wizard, but then take an aspect that limits you to your theme (in this example, ectomancy).  That way any time your focus disadvantages you to a sufficiently significant degree, you could claim a fate point (which you could then funnel into making your ectomancy more effective).

This is basically an extreme application of the "Blind Spots" sidebar on YS179.

[Haru]

I like sponsored magic for any powerful focused practitioner, really. It is a great way to implement the "hot headed pyromancer" and similar element based tropes. It is the same price as channeling + ritual, so there isn't really any difference there, but it emphasizes the specific element a bit more than just the skill. It is the difference between "I know fire magic" and "I am fire magic", which is an interesting thing to play, I think. Kind of an extreme version of Becq's idea, I think. It might not fit every character concept, I admit, but there are a lot of ways around that.

There are a lot of ways to power up a focused practitioner, sponsored magic is only one of them. The most important rule for me is: only because it looks like magic, doesn't mean it needs to be magic.
What do I mean by that? A lot of the powers listed can be emulated with magic, and more importantly, they can be used to emulate the increased knowledge in a part of your magic. An aquamancer? Take the aquatic power. An aeromancer? Wings, here you go. A pyromancer? Breath weapons and you can sling those fireballs like it's nothing. Using earth magic to bolster your strength when beating some monster up? Why not take inhuman strength?

The mechanics only have to be loosely connected to what happens in the game. And you can interpret the powers any way you like, as long as you pay for it.

[Richard_Chilton]

You can tap Lightning Storms as a "sponsor", Ley lines, places of power, etc.

I can see Mort tapping "gathering of ghosts" or "well of necromantic energy" as a sponsor.  But as far as I can tell there's no refresh cost for things like that.  Harry certainly didn't spend refresh to tap lightning, ley lines, and other places of power when he taps them.

Richard

[Haru]

He's probably going to spent at least a fate point for it. And tapping into a stationary/temporary power source like a ley line or a lightning storm can easily be viewed as a "Place of Power" type sponsored magic (YS292). If you already have evocation + thaumaturgy, the upgrade would cost you only one refresh anyway, and if you take it as a temporary power, it cost you 1 fate point to use it for a scene.

Now that I think about it, this is a neat little trick that any wizard in his right mind should use as often as possible.

[UmbraLux]

I'd stat Mort with Modular Abilities (or something very similar) instead of extra spell casting powers.  GS spoiler:

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It seems to fit his spending an action to have a ghost 'possess' him and then gaining powers related to the ghost...even up to Harry's spell casting.

[Quazar]

I'd stat Mort with Modular Abilities (or something very similar) instead of extra spell casting powers.  GS spoiler:

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It seems to fit his spending an action to have a ghost 'possess' him and then gaining powers related to the ghost...even up to Harry's spell casting.

Yes, but that doesn't explain such things as Mort

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gathering all those ghosts and freight training the body-snatcher.

  That seems like a clearly high shift ectomancy spell.

As for Sponsored Magic, the books states "These power sources, called sponsors, are at least semi-aware, if not fully-aware, entities.  Ancient and strange and potent, they have agendas of their own, and they view those to whom they grant a modicum of their own power as their agents throughout Creation."  Mort seems to act out of compassion for the shades that wander Chicago, and not as their servant.  Now, if you want to have a character with a nebulous sponsor in your game then that's your business.  But as for the canon character?  I'd say he's just a really specialized ectomancer.

[Tedronai]

Moreover, aside from whether Sponsored Magic is appropriate for any given Focused Practitioner, its use doesn't address the fundamental issue at hand, here, being that of the power ceiling that results from being unable to access the full range of Refinement.

[Aminar]

I have personally stated that focused practicioners in my game can take all the refinement in their focus they want provided they have taken The Sight, but they can never upgrade to full wizard, or take Evocation/Thaumaturgy/Sponsored magic thereafter.  I understand the goal was to make full wizard a goal, but I'd rather have a superlimited pyromancer that functions as a glass cannon than a full wizard if that is what the player wants.  I see no reason not to allow Ice-man as a character.  He's still not better than a full wizard. 

By not letting them take Evocation etc. it loses them the fact Evocation is better than Channeling/Refinement.  They may be better at blasting than the Wizard(by alot.)  But a Wizard can still own them with prep and planning.  And they still go down like chumps. 

[Becq]

I'd stat Mort with Modular Abilities (or something very similar) instead of extra spell casting powers.  GS spoiler:

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It seems to fit his spending an action to have a ghost 'possess' him and then gaining powers related to the ghost...even up to Harry's spell casting.

It seems to me that this could still be explained as clever use of ectomantic powers.  For example:

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In the case of using the skills of assorted ghosts, this could be a Thaumaturgy (Ectomancy) "simple action", gaining a high skill roll and using temporary possession as the 'excuse'.  In the case of using Harry's magic, I would model it as using a temporary power, again using Ectomancy as the 'excuse'.

However, I seem to recall that these spells were very quickly cast, which could argue for a sponsored magic-style Thaum-as-Evo.  Or it could simply be a matter of casting a spell with a complexity under his Lore very quickly.

[InFerrumVeritas]

I don't like Sponsored Magic for Mort. He really is an ectomancer. And I don't see what part of his powers Sponsored Magic allows that ectomancy doesn't.

My normal recommendations for people who want specializations for Focused Practitioners are:

a) Trade in the right to take foci for the right to take pyramid-less specializations.
or
b) Take Evocation with elements that are all basically the same as the original element. Like Heat, Smoke, and Fire.

A:  Bad idea.  Foci are less powerful than pyramid-less specializations because they are pyramid-less bonuses anyway, tied to having items and split between offensive/defensive for evocation.  It would be suboptimal to NOT make this trade, and could potentially make a FP evoker MORE powerful than a full wizard of similar refresh could be.

B:  This is the idea that I favor.  Well, either this or Sponsored magic.  Thematically they care still a focused practitioner, the WC would dismiss them as such because their lack of versatility, but they'd be able to shine more. 

Personally, I think Mort has Sponsored Magic with "Ghosts of Chicago" as his patron. 

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He'd take debt instead of spending a FP for a temporary power for a scene or part of a scene.

  I think other focused practitioners would benefit best from the Evocation with narrow elements route.

Actually, though, for sheer power, you can make a FP Evoker some refresh levels with better bonuses through Focus Items (because they ignore the pyramid).  Because they're spending on a single element, they can optimize how those are are placed.