Sorcerers and Soul Gaze

[jybil178]

Now I may be looking into this too much.  I was just making sure, a sorcerer can take soul gaze like they can take the sight.  It's not mentioned specifically, but I know that the sight and the soul gaze are related to each other.  I may be over-thinking things.  I just wanted to double check, make sure it's not a wizard-only thing.

[sinker]

Soulgaze isn't limited only to wizards, but generally one would need a decent reason to take it otherwise.

The only link between soulgaze and the sight is that if you have the sight then soulgaze may be purchased for free.

[jybil178]

Alright, thank you.. I'd known I'd looked over it, and I'd remembered my own interpretation of it. Just one of my players was wanting to know, and was really worried, so before I said yes and got their hopes up or no, and made them sad, I wanted to ask the only group of experts I had access to.  Now reading over it again, a few times, I feel a little silly. Thank you none the less, I do really appreciate that.

[Richard_Chilton]

When the Soul Gaze is discussed in the books, Harry had said that the ability to trigger a soul gaze is one of the things that separate White Council quality wizards from Sorcerers.

Of course, that might just mean that the PC is slowly switching templates and will end up as a Wizard.

Richard

[vultur]

I'd assume that being a full Wizard is a matter of training as well as (innate) talent/power, so I think a Sorcerer could have the Soulgaze if they had the innate talent to be a full Wizard, but not the training for it.

Also, things probably aren't that cut-and-dried anyway... it's been said that the soulgaze is one factor in whether the Council accepts someone as a full wizard, but far from the only one.

[Sanctaphrax]

I wouldn't worry about whether it's possible.

It's not going to break anything either mechanically or flavourfully. So why not allow it?

[devonapple]

A Sorcerer could plausibly be the equal of a Wizard, except without the pedigree or sanction of the White Council.

[Mr. Death]

Yeah, in some cases the line between wizard and sorcerer is pretty fine--the main dividing factor is largely, "Are they in the White Council," and there could be any number of reasons why one isn't. Lack of talent, lack of official backing, or maybe they're just not willing to join.

[sinker]

Heck I figure if it makes a good story you should do whatever. I once had a great idea for a journalist who had somehow taught himself to soulgaze after an encounter with a wizard. I eventually decided that soulgaze wasn't worth 3 refresh (I would lose the mortal bonus) but it was a cool idea.

[Becq]

From a purely rules point of view, the Soulgaze power states (YS174):
Application of the Sight [+1]. If you have the Sight, above, you may take Soulgaze for free if you so choose. It’s not mandatory.

My interpretation of this is that it's saying that although Soulgaze can be purchased as a standalone power (which would require a template/concept that allows for it), it can also be bought as a (free) upgrade to The Sight.  Since Sorcerors can buy The Sight as an option, this would let them buy Soulgaze as an application of The Sight (but only as an application The Sight).  Note that there is precedence for this on OW154: Gregor, the "charismatic sorcerer who ran a cult/coven that Charity Carpenter belonged to twenty years ago" has Soulgaze, despite being a 'mere' Sorceror.

It's also unclear that you need to be part of the White Council to be a full Wizard.  Clearly the White Council likes to think this is a requirement, but there's precedence for non-White Council Wizards, as well.  For example, while Elaine, who was self-taught after DuMorne's death (unlike Dresden who completed his training with McCoy) and never formaly made a member of the White Council, is nonetheless considered a Wizard.  And its not clear (yet) whether Kumori was ever associated with the White Council, yet she is considered a Wizard.