Romero-Style Zombies

[Mr. Death]

I suppose I misspoke, but my point was that a single Romero zombie shouldn't be that tough to kill at all. It is, after all, a slow, stupid creature with no sense of self-preservation or any protection aside from its bones and ability to not give a shit about having big holes blown through it. The classic Romero zombie isn't something that should take someone a while of wearing down to kill if you have some idea what you're doing. It's when there's a bunch of them, and you don't have time to bring them down one at a time, that the consequences they can take come in to keep them going, and they become a real threat.

The way I see it, a single zombie faced by a group of PCs, or even a lone PC, shouldn't last more than two rounds--one to pull a maneuver or inflict a strong consequence (any PC with a weapon and half-decent attack skill ought to be able to manage it, given the zombie's 0-base defense roll), two to blow its brains out and finish it off. Unless it manages to get the drop on someone, and barring freak good/bad rolls, it shouldn't be able to do much damage. But if the PCs are significantly outnumbered, sure they might still be able to finish off individual zombies, but each time they concentrate on one, five or six more get to move in and attack. The tactics shift to crowd control and spray attacks to make breathing room--inflicting consequences, possibly Severe ones that all but cripple the zombies, but no true Take Outs.

[Becq]

No problem, just use the mook variety, then, and bring them on in hordes.  The "supporting character" and "main NPC" options are just that -- options.

Another option, by the way: someone proposed a power called "swarm body" or something like that a while back.  I can't find it right now because the search feature on this site hates me, but possibly Sanctaphrax or someone else might be able to point you to it.

[Sanctaphrax]

Swarm Body.

[Mr. Death]

So I finally got a chance to try these out in a side-game, and I'm happy to report they worked more or less as intended. The group in question was an avatar of the phoenix with healing powers and Breath Weapon for fireballs; an ex-mafia doctor with sponsored magic geared toward healing and Fair skill with guns; and a katana-wielding, water-magic-slinging avatar of a balance guardian. While it was 11 to 12 refresh (characters coming from different campaigns), only the balance avatar was able to deal out crazy magic damage (but preferred her sword).

As few as two or three zombies ended up being child's play to take care of barring freak rolls (one zombie just kept rolling +2 and +3 for his defenses), and because of some surprisingly good rolls (first zombie attack was made at 7) the old "try to help the 'wounded' person only to get bitten" cliche played out entirely on its own.

Once I threw a horde of them at the group of two defenders (represented mechanically by four zombies attacking at a time and 'rotating' in as others fell), they still proved dangerous--they were landing stress hits by sheer weight of numbers (turns out if you roll four times in a row from 3, it's almost a guarantee that at least one will hit 5 or 6), and using spray attacks meant while every hit caused a consequence and gained some breathing room, they didn't actually take out more than two or three of them over the course of the fight. They ended up having to spend at least a couple turns blocking and maneuvering just to keep from being overwhelmed (and even then, one of the zeds managed to get through a 5-shift block).

I ended up not using the Zombie Toughness for the most part because the fights didn't go on that long.

In all it ended with the balance guardian managing to shut down the faulty necromantic spell (after chopping in half the faulty necromancer), and I think it went rather well.

[tymire]

I would just rearange the skills.  The classic ones where more horror based.  They are never shown to be good in a fight.

+4  Might
+3  Intimidation
+2  Contacts
+1  Fists

Add a power:
Sense the Living [-1] (Can always sense the nearest human)
Claws [-3] (Venomous, biting, uses might for enderance check, takeout always equals becoming one)

[Mr. Death]

Claws and venomous are already on there; sense the living is giving them too much credit--a zombie still has to see, hear, or smell a human in every bit of fiction I've seen.

A monster with a +1 attack skill is not going to hit any PC worth the term. I put it at +3 so they'd be at least a threat physically.

[Deadmanwalking]

Claws and venomous are already on there; sense the living is giving them too much credit--a zombie still has to see, hear, or smell a human in every bit of fiction I've seen.

A monster with a +1 attack skill is not going to hit any PC worth the term. I put it at +3 so they'd be at least a threat physically.

Well, they could always do Might maneuvers the first turn then grapple the second. Indeed, that's probably most apporopriate for how zombies actually fight...

It does make the Claws useless and the venomous a GM call whether it applies, though.

[Mr. Death]

Well, they could always do Might maneuvers the first turn then grapple the second. Indeed, that's probably most apporopriate for how zombies actually fight...

It does make the Claws useless and the venomous a GM call whether it applies, though.

The problem with grappling is, well, it's too easy to break out of. A zombie that has to rely on grappling isn't going to do much damage, because your average PC is going to have some physical or attacking skill at 4 or 5, which means it's just a crapshoot as to whether or not the zombie's grapple is even going to last the round.

So if it's grapple focused, that means that an individual zombie is going to need three turns minimum (maneuver, grapple, then pray like hell that the grapple holds until its next turn), to do any kind of damage--and short of a strength power, one shift at a time--and that's only if his target rolls really badly. It effectively neuters them as a physical threat entirely (and only threatening when they have four or five turns to freely grapple), when a zombie should be able to attack and cause damage all in one turn.

Remember that a grapple doesn't necessarily mean grabbing someone--it means restraining someone. A zombie just grabbing an arm and biting is an attack. A grapple is when they try to tackle you to the ground or pull you into the horde.

[tymire]

Well, they could always do Might maneuvers the first turn

This is exactly what I was thinking actually.  By themselves they are never dangerous unless they surprise people.  Also they rarely seem to kill people by NOT eating them.  So what I was thinking is if you have say 4 of them, 3 of them perform maneuvers (might, contacts, or  intimidate) that the last one tags.  Suddenly that fists +1 is now +7, and that is fairly dangerous.  Like previously mentioned base venomous off of might instead of fists and you are golden.

For the life sense, I was thinking more of a long distance sense for when they have covered the earth and somehow 10s to 100s all end up crowding around some abandoned farmhouse in the middle of nowhere.

[Mr. Death]

This is exactly what I was thinking actually.  By themselves they are never dangerous unless they surprise people.  Also they rarely seem to kill people by NOT eating them.  So what I was thinking is if you have say 4 of them, 3 of them perform maneuvers (might, contacts, or  intimidate) that the last one tags.  Suddenly that fists +1 is now +7, and that is fairly dangerous.  Like previously mentioned base venomous off of might instead of fists and you are golden.

That kind of implies a level of coordination that just doesn't fit with the brainless zombie archetype, to me. And it still means that a single zombie can't even attack on its own and have any chance whatsoever of doing real damage. A zombie really should be able to attack in one turn.

For the life sense, I was thinking more of a long distance sense for when they have covered the earth and somehow 10s to 100s all end up crowding around some abandoned farmhouse in the middle of nowhere.

You just answered it--they're covering the earth. They're everywhere, and sound carries (especially when people aren't around as much to keep making it).

[HumAnnoyd]

I had some cannibal thralls in the story I ran and I handled them by using the Mook Rules from LoA and SA.  Essentially I made them Average (+1) minions which means they have a single stress box before being taken out and that they roll at Average for attack and defense.  They max out at up to Good (+3) Minions which would have 3 Stress boxes and roll at Good for attack and defense.  This makes an individual very easy to deal with.  Where they become dangerous is when they group up.  They then get a bonus to attack and defense as the table below:

MINION GROUP BONUS
2-3 = +1
4-6 = +2
7-9 = +3
10 = +4

As the group takes damage it becomes less effective.  You can also add whatever powers you wish (Living Dead, Venomous Claws etc.) as usual and they would work exactly as if they would on any individual character.  There were additional rules for having minions work with main NPCs but I will leave it at that since that would really apply with a zombie uprising.

Using these rules my party went through over a hundred minion thralls in an epic confrontation.