Author Topic: Is my summoner Balanced?  (Read 6347 times)

Offline Aminar

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Re: Is my summoner Balanced?
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2012, 04:51:39 PM »
I can pull things from the Demense, but it isn't a place the character wants to br given that its a representation of his Psyche.  In addition, any caster can retreat to the never never.  Even a Demense shouldn't.be friendly.  I don't see the advantage.

Moving to the other question.  My individual character won't be calling forth anything intelligent.  He views that as wrong.  Technically for intelligent summons the bargaining versus forcing rules should still apply.

Offline polkaneverdies

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Re: Is my summoner Balanced?
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2012, 07:37:23 PM »
There is a world of difference between hitting the local Nevernever which is normally stuffed with hostile entities or landscapes and hitting your demense. Just read the "home turf" effect that demense grants you to see the difference.

 Just to be clear I think either view of accessibility could be valid since the book doesn't specify. I am simply saying that if you can reach it from anywhere then to hold it up as balance isn't very accurate. It could be hugely useful in a multitude of different scenarios. You can't say that of many things that only cost one refresh.

Offline Aminar

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Re: Is my summoner Balanced?
« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2012, 07:51:46 PM »
I agree to an extent, but when you walk into your demense and everything you've ever summoned is there waiting, Home Turf doesn't mean much.  Especially when your Demense is a representation of your mental landscape.  If.your fleeing a battle that isn't going to be a fun place.  That's part of the flavor bit though.  However I've been looking at it as simply storage space.  You can send your summons there, pull them from there, but going there yourself (physically) isn't a constant option.  At that point Balance wise (and why most wizards don't summon like this for canonical purposes) it makes sense. 

Lastly, any extraneous prerequisite is a balance thing.  Sure it doesn't affect base power level, but it hurts customization, slowing down advancement.  It still affects the class balance.  Much like wizards needing the sight/soulgaze before taking lots of refinement.

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Is my summoner Balanced?
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2012, 04:57:39 AM »
Within your Demesne, you are essentially omnipotent. You automatically succeed on all Declarations about the physical form of the Demesne. So if you want to transform the air in someone's lungs into antimatter...it's technically okay.

Most GMs will call shenanigans on that though.

The funny thing is, Demesne isn't really useful as a storage space. It does not allow you to open portals.

Anyway, that's beside the point. What I'm saying is that making the system less flexible isn't a good thing unless it's necessary for flavour. If you're after balance here, just make summoning cost a point of refresh on top of what it normally costs. Don't force summoners to mangle their character concepts with a mandatory power.

Offline Aminar

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Re: Is my summoner Balanced?
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2012, 05:12:16 AM »
Within your Demesne, you are essentially omnipotent. You automatically succeed on all Declarations about the physical form of the Demesne. So if you want to transform the air in someone's lungs into antimatter...it's technically okay.

Most GMs will call shenanigans on that though.

The funny thing is, Demesne isn't really useful as a storage space. It does not allow you to open portals.

Anyway, that's beside the point. What I'm saying is that making the system less flexible isn't a good thing unless it's necessary for flavour. If you're after balance here, just make summoning cost a point of refresh on top of what it normally costs. Don't force summoners to mangle their character concepts with a mandatory power.

It is very much for flavor.  It's tied into the characters High Concept and everything.  Functionally the characters Demense is his psyche imprinted on a pocket of the NeverNever.  For the individual character it isn't really Puppies and Rainbows.  He comes from an alternate dimension where Kemmler was a Demon Summoner.  That Kemmler managed to yank enough high demons from Hell to start off an apocalyptic scale war between Heaven and Hell.  The character, and the Denarian style(in a coin, but without the transformation/power granting abilities) spirit of the archangel Anduriel barely escaped from the fey fortress in Edinburough; coming to this dimension to warn it about Kemmler.  From there he popped out into Edinburough, was arrested, proven innocent, and moved to Milwalkee WI.

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Is my summoner Balanced?
« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2012, 05:33:36 AM »
That's great flavour for your character. Not so much for the system as a whole. Characters that are nothing like yours ought to be able to summon.