Guns and Gruffs?

[KnightKD]

What's the story with Gruffs toting machine pistols and revolvers? Shouldn't that be an iron/fae issue?

Just a little thing I've been wondering. Perhaps I missed the explanation of that somewhere.

[Tedronai]

Maybe they bought off the compel.
Maybe they wore gloves.
Maybe the guns they were using were substantially composed of composite materials.

[KnightKD]

Good thoughts.
How picky are fae when it comes to "iron". Do lead bullets count towards their catch? Or is it necessary to get the steel jacketed rounds? It seems a little odd for fae creatures to be employing "the bane" against their foes, but then again, that's pretty much any sword too...

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But then why was Tiny so mad at Harry for using the bane against his brothers?

I guess I'm looking for a source of clarification on the bane thing.

[Tedronai]

First off, lead is not iron.
Second, swords can be made from other materials, including those available to the fae that are not available to the mortal world at large.

[KnightKD]

I had realized that, but isn't there precedent in the books for gunshots satisfying the catch for fae? Offhand I can't remember, but I had thought it.

[Tedronai]

There was an incident involving one of the elder Gruffs and Murphy in Mac's Pub,

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but it was all threat and no follow-through (since the Gruff backed down), so we don't even know if the bullets were steel-jacketed as described.

[Becq]

Second, swords can be made from other materials, including those available to the fae that are not available to the mortal world at large.

Such materials are collectively known as 'ectoplasm'.  While using weapons made from such materials can certainly be done (especially in the Nevernever), relying on them in the mortal world has potential disadvantages.  And some advantages, too...  (Hard to find an ectoplasmic murder weapon once it melts away...)

That said, though, ectoplasmic guns could be the answer to the machine-gun-toting Gruff question.  Or it could be a case of the Gruffs buying off the compel, as suggested earlier.

[Jebm]

I actually remember the gruffs wearing gloves when they attacked Harry including the trench coats,

[InFerrumVeritas]

I love the ectoplasm idea...

[Tedronai]

Such materials are collectively known as 'ectoplasm'.  While using weapons made from such materials can certainly be done (especially in the Nevernever), relying on them in the mortal world has potential disadvantages.  And some advantages, too...  (Hard to find an ectoplasmic murder weapon once it melts away...)

Fae creatures' bodies not being composed of ectoplasm, I do not find it inevitable that their swords would be.

[Becq]

Fae creatures' bodies not being composed of ectoplasm, I do not find it inevitable that their swords would be.

Creatures of the Nevernever are collectively known as 'spirit' creatures (OW29).  Most such creatures require the loan of a body of some sort (ectoplasm bodies being one example).  But Fae are a special case: they are 'embodied' denizens of the Nevernever, which means they can enter the mortal world without the need for ectoplasmic bodies (OW29).  I'm not sure where I read the quote, but Jim had indicated that all Fae were originally human, which explains this.

But any 'special Fae metals' found somewhere in the Nevernever ... would be plain old ectoplasm in the mortal world.

[Tedronai]

Those first two statements are utterly irrelevant given the third, and I'm unfamiliar with the details of the reference in the fourth though I recall some conjecture to that effect on the forums a while back.

My point being that, with the precedent that at least some matter of the nevernever is not ectoplasm (fae bodies), it is possible that other matter of the nevernever might be of similar nature.

[vonpenguin]

Wasn't something along the lines of copper mentioned in relation to fae arms and armor at one point?

[Orladdin]

Wasn't something along the lines of copper mentioned in relation to fae arms and armor at one point?

Yeah, faeries are shown to use Bronze weapons at least one place in the books.

[polkaneverdies]

iirc it was the more organized Hobs,who were attacking the Archive in the train station, that were carrying bronze weapons.