Black Council "Recruitment" [GS Spoilers]

[Serack]

So in thinking about topics like Lea, Christos, and Nic, I think I might have put a few things together...  The main inspiration for my conclusions is how during the conversation between Nic and Harry before the Rumble at the Shedd, Nic/Andariel seemed genuinely concerned about Harry's account of Hellfire being used at Arctis Tor, and considers such a thing a "contamination" if it's a member of the "Order."

Contamination is the key word here.   I am thinking that most of the “Black Council” operatives that Harry has a chance to interact with aren’t actually card carrying “members” but rather are contaminated somehow into doing things along the lines of what they want.  Contaminated by what?  Some kind of Outsider influence.  Vittorio Malvora was flat out possessed by an outsider, but maybe the same is true for pretty much every operative we have come across…  Others that are somehow contaminated, and possibly by outsiders (to some degree) would be… Aurora, Lea, Vittorio, and some more that deserve more elaboration… 

Thorned Namshiel might have been contaminated, but I’m thinking that Tessa is actually the major vector there, and he was working on her orders. 

Lord Raith might be contaminated, since he is so magically slippery, and when he became Neutralized, the “Black Council” had to act to reassert their sway over the White Court, hence the events of White Night.  He might actually be a “Card Carrying Member” considering Eb thought something “big” was protecting him.

I think the Red King was “contaminated.”  2 pieces of evidence towards this are that Harry thought he might have been going mad, and his hand reattaching was a “super vampire” move that seemed to closely parallel the “super ghoul” stuff we saw in White Night…

Justin is suspect since he was looking for candidate minions that might have power over Outsiders and he was obviously doing some pretty nasty black magic. 

Finally, and this is the big controversial one, Harry might be contaminated to some degree.  He is still tainted with the Shadow of HHWB, and something about the reveal in GS makes me suspect that HHWB let Harry win that fight, and that maybe he actually got some kind of influence over Harry out of the encounter.

ETA:  Elaine was forced to drink that blood by Justin, and she ran to Aurora for help, so she might be the Vector for her...  helps the Elaine=Kumori theories.

ETA2:  I ment to mention that Christos may be contaminated, and thus be mucking things up without being a conspirator.

[cass]

So, you think the BC is less a single organized body than a collection of isolated cells?
I'd buy it....but there is that bit with Cowl in WN that seems to argue for at least some hierarchy. Hmm.  Maybe only within a cell?

[Serack]

Hmmmm, If there is a conclusion about who is calling the shots, it's the Outsiders themselves...  Heck, HHWB was taking a direct part in Blood Rites.  Don't forget that meerly percieving some of their members can be insanity inducing... and some insanity has certainly been induced.

[Serack]

... Elaine...  Drank the blood... ran to Aurora... *twitch*

[Second Aristh]

Instead of a bunch of independent isolated cells of Black Council, it seems like the BC is more like a small group that contracts out its more visible actions.  I believe we have actually seen very few BC members who are fully in the know, namely Cowl, Kumori, and maybe Peabody (I can't decide if Mavra is actually BC or not). 

Shagnasty was clearly working for someone, but he doesn't need to be a part of the conspiracy.  All he would care about was getting to go out and torture somebody.
Same goes for the Erlking if the theory that he was the source of the wolf belts in Fool Moon holds water.  Erlking gets to help hunters go after prey; after that, he doesn't really care.

Need a war between the Red Court and White Council?  Just whisper into Bianca's ear and mix it with poor and erratic leadership and her very public murder.  Bianca didn't really need to be a part of the conspiracy (in fact, few if any of the RC did); she just needed to overlook the longterm consequences of her actions and focus on getting revenge. 

Individuals in the White Court covet political power.  All the BC needs to do to get them on board is offer up some juicy way to backstab their neighbor.  The BC doesn't need to include White Court vampires into all of their secrets.

It seems like overall, the BC is set up like an octopus.  It has a central core that sets goals, and many arms that don't really know about each other but will push people around according to what the BC leadership want them to do.

[JessE]

I'm starting to think that they are all goons at different levels working in an organization run by a god of chaos like oh I don't know Loki? And maybe most of them are not even aware of each other, except for the really higher ups like Nic. Wouldn't that make sence since Odin is a Big player against it? Simply speculating

[Paladino]

I see the BC as a group of individuals that have a common goal, and when there is something that need to be done, is given as a task to an individual, instead of the whole group trying to acomplish it. What explains why the resourses of the BC seen so variables..

As for White Night (any reason you keep writing White Knights Serack?) I'm not sure what to think, I can see Cowls move as someone trying to regain control of the WC by putting the Malvora family in power and later replacing Lady Malvora with Vitto.. It makes sense, since the idea I got from my frist reading, that his objective was to bleed the white council by dennying them new recruits in the long term, dosen't fit with the BC actions that seens to be aiming something not so far away. What dosen't make sense, is why try to destroy the whole WC leadership after the plan failed? Did he belive Lara would work aganst him, or just for a chance of killing Harry?

[Serack]

Bah, I keep saying Knight instead of Night due to crossed circuitry in the brain.

It's been so long since I last tossed around thoughts about this stuff that I forgot about Peabody on the BC list

[Paladino]

I think Peabody was more of a mercenary type, I don't think he knew much of what was going in the BC, he probally was promised in after he finished his high risk mission of infiltraiting and "poisoning" the white council..

[Arjan]

Lara was operating as an ally of the white council and Harry in particular. Certainly from Cowls point of view. Clearly something had to be done and replacing the current leadership was an obvious thing to do.

At the end of the duel the original plan had failed so vitto called for his backup. He probably wanted to do that from the beginning but cowl would prefer a quieter solution if possible.

Once the gouls were called in merely killing the raiths was not an option. Vitto could not hold the white court against the nobles of the other two houses. He had lost the duel. He was dead. The other houses would probably kill him sooner or later. His only option was to kill them all and start again with the lesser white court vampires he could dominate. Cowl went along with it. It would result in a white court totaly in his pocket. A white court controlled by malvora would be less predictable.


 

[Paladino]

It makes sense, but such a White Court would be weak and not of much use for Cowl. I think after he faield he went for the if I cant have it nobody will..

[Duke Blue]

So in thinking about topics like Lea, Christos, and Nic, I think I might have put a few things together...  The main inspiration for my conclusions is how during the conversation between Nic and Harry before the Rumble at the Shedd, Nic/Andariel seemed genuinely concerned about Harry's account of Hellfire being used at Arctis Tor, and considers such a thing a "contamination" if it's a member of the "Order."

Contamination is the key word here.   I am thinking that most of the “Black Council” operatives that Harry has a chance to interact with aren’t actually card carrying “members” but rather are contaminated somehow into doing things along the lines of what they want.  Contaminated by what?  Some kind of Outsider influence.  Vittorio Malvora was flat out possessed by an outsider, but maybe the same is true for pretty much every operative we have come across…  Others that are somehow contaminated, and possibly by outsiders (to some degree) would be… Aurora, Lea, Vittorio, and some more that deserve more elaboration… 

Thorned Namshiel might have been contaminated, but I’m thinking that Tessa is actually the major vector there, and he was working on her orders.

Since you have been talking so much about the contaminated line, I had to look it up.  And then because the Shedd fight scene is so awesome I had to keep reading.  That is when I noticed something wierd.  After Tessa has captured Harry in the aquarium and is trying to get him to reveal where Ivy is, she says to him: "They say to give a man three chances to say no" (Small Favor Chapter 32). Now it may be just a coincidence but that immediately struck me as awefully similar to Cowl's: "Thrice will I ask and done" (Dead Beat Chapter when he is asking Harry for Das Lied Der Erlking.  I don't know if it has been mentioned before but if there is a connection between them, then it would certainly seem to support your theory.

[cass]

I think the whole 'asking three times' bit is a tradition/ritual bit in the supernatural world.  Doesn't Harry say that if you get a Faerie to say something/promise something three times they're bound by their word (and, of course, pissed with you for forcing them to it)?  Three (and seven) are special numbers, at least in the European tradition. (And in my somewhat dumbed-down version of the 1001 Nights, and in my book of fairy tales from the ex-USSR countries)  How many children/daughters are in Cinderella's household?  How many times does the witch test Hansel's finger to see if he's fat enough? How many dwarves does Snow White encounter? (and so on.)

[Serack]

There's no place like home...

yah, the 3 times thing is a recuring theme in old world stuffs.

[Gman]

I think the whole 'asking three times' bit is a tradition/ritual bit in the supernatural world.  Doesn't Harry say that if you get a Faerie to say something/promise something three times they're bound by their word (and, of course, pissed with you for forcing them to it)?  Three (and seven) are special numbers, at least in the European tradition. (And in my somewhat dumbed-down version of the 1001 Nights, and in my book of fairy tales from the ex-USSR countries)  How many children/daughters are in Cinderella's household?  How many times does the witch test Hansel's finger to see if he's fat enough? How many dwarves does Snow White encounter? (and so on.)

Prime numbers do seem to have significance such as asking 3 times, 5 pointed star, 7 laws of magic, 13 max number of wizards doing a spell together etc.