Author Topic: Rules for Pets and Allies  (Read 25665 times)

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Rules for Pets and Allies
« Reply #75 on: January 01, 2012, 12:58:47 AM »
Oh, so your problem isn't actually with the powers. It's with the "independent character" bit.

Makes sense. I retract my confusion and my arguments.

I'll have to wait for playtesting to see if you're right.

Offline UmbraLux

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Re: Rules for Pets and Allies
« Reply #76 on: January 01, 2012, 03:00:01 AM »
Perhaps, but even that may be simplifying too much.  I try to think of the system as a whole.  PCs are the 'token' a player uses to interact with and affect the game. 

As for the action economy, experience says it has a major affect on game play.  I ran 2nd ed Shadowrun for years. 
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Rules for Pets and Allies
« Reply #77 on: January 02, 2012, 04:59:50 AM »
Yeah, the action economy is important. But I think that the fact that allies are NPCs will go a long way towards making their extra actions less powerful.

Offline SunlessNick

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Re: Rules for Pets and Allies
« Reply #78 on: January 02, 2012, 05:08:23 AM »
Quote
But if I give Alfred no combat skills, he isn't going to fight anyway. So why should I get rewarded for making him unable to do what he didn't have the skills to do in the first place?  -  Sanctaphrax
Ok, that makes sense.

Offline devonapple

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Re: Rules for Pets and Allies
« Reply #79 on: January 03, 2012, 05:52:08 AM »
In SotC, a Companion is generally backing you up in a conflict and providing ablative Stress armor. Having a Companion which can work independently and pursue other tasks costs one more Refresh.
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Offline devonapple

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Re: Rules for Pets and Allies
« Reply #80 on: February 02, 2012, 05:36:23 PM »
Did we lose any important updates to this thread in the server crash?
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Rules for Pets and Allies
« Reply #81 on: February 03, 2012, 11:50:43 PM »
I don't think so.

Thanks for digging this up, by the way.

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Rules for Pets and Allies
« Reply #82 on: February 04, 2012, 04:59:55 AM »
Alright, let me summarize what I have so far. It might be horribly broken, but it's as balanced as I can make it without using it in play.

Stunts can grant companions. Companions are NPCs that are under the partial control of a player. They can't be controlled directly, but barring compels they obey all semi-reasonable orders. They each have two aspects and a high concept. They have no Refresh.

One stunt gives a 0-refresh companion with a skill pyramid that caps out 2 below the skill that the stunt is connected to. Each companion gets 1 upgrade stunt for free.

An upgrade stunt can increase the pyramid height of a companion by 1.

An upgrade stunt can give 1 point of powers or stunts to a companion. If the GM judges that the powers or stunts chosen are less useful in the companion's hands then they would be in the player's, each upgrade stunt can give an additional point of refresh. If the GM judges that the powers and stunts chosen are somehow impractical or suboptimal, each upgrade stunt can give an additional point of refresh. (This is basically a reward for choosing companion abilities unintelligently.)

What we need now is:

1. Some sort of Quirk system.
2. Rules for having a whole mob of weak companions.
3. Guidelines on how many skill-increasing stunts can be purchased.
4. PLAYTESTING.

Offline UmbraLux

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Re: Rules for Pets and Allies
« Reply #83 on: February 04, 2012, 03:10:53 PM »
One more question for your list - can a pure mortal have a companion with powers?  (Without losing his extra refresh.)
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Offline Tedronai

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Re: Rules for Pets and Allies
« Reply #84 on: February 04, 2012, 04:01:57 PM »
The above system represents ALL companions with stunts.
Pure Mortal + stunt = Pure Mortal
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Rules for Pets and Allies
« Reply #85 on: February 04, 2012, 09:21:50 PM »
Um, yeah, a mortal can have a companion with powers.

I thought that that was clear...is there anything to indicate that that would not be the case?

Also, Tedronai, I do not understand your post at all.

Offline polkaneverdies

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Re: Rules for Pets and Allies
« Reply #86 on: February 05, 2012, 04:47:47 PM »
I believe tedronai was just saying yes.

Offline devonapple

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Re: Rules for Pets and Allies
« Reply #87 on: February 05, 2012, 05:16:42 PM »
I believe tedronai was just saying yes.

"My friend said to me, 'I think the weather's trippy.' I said, 'No, man, it's not the weather that's trippy, perhaps it is the way that we perceive it that is indeed trippy.' Then I thought, 'Man, I should have just said, 'Yeah.''l
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Rules for Pets and Allies
« Reply #88 on: February 06, 2012, 02:14:14 AM »
Idea for a quirk system:

A quirk is an aspect that reflects an agenda separate from the player's. Orders given to a companion will be obeyed only as long as they are in accordance with this aspect. Quirky companions get +X refresh, where X is the number of stunts invested in them.

Idea for a companion mob:

There is an upgrade stunt that copies a companion, giving you another one with the same stats. It must be applied before all other upgrades. But when you upgrade one, you can upgrade the others at half price.

Idea for limits on skill boosters:

You can only buy a skill pyramid booster after buying a refresh upgrade. You can only buy a second after taking a quirk and 4 refresh upgrades.

Okay, I just came up with those in 15 minutes. They're probably awful. Pull them apart.

Offline Praxidicae

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Re: Rules for Pets and Allies
« Reply #89 on: February 07, 2012, 01:25:01 PM »
Idea for a quirk system:

A quirk is an aspect that reflects an agenda separate from the player's. Orders given to a companion will be obeyed only as long as they are in accordance with this aspect. Quirky companions get +X refresh, where X is the number of stunts invested in them.

Idea for a companion mob:

There is an upgrade stunt that copies a companion, giving you another one with the same stats. It must be applied before all other upgrades. But when you upgrade one, you can upgrade the others at half price.

Idea for limits on skill boosters:

You can only buy a skill pyramid booster after buying a refresh upgrade. You can only buy a second after taking a quirk and 4 refresh upgrades.

Okay, I just came up with those in 15 minutes. They're probably awful. Pull them apart.

I like the idea of quirks for companions, and I'd go so far as to expand the quirks beyond agendas and goals to pretty much anything that could complicate the relationship between the character and his companion, or effect the companions utility in a significant way. Assuming that companions cannot recieve Fate points of their own, this provides a good reason to create compellable aspects for the companions. I would, however, include the option for this as an part of the Companion stunt rather than as a separate system.

For mobs of companions, unless we're talking about a set of named 'Bodyguard' NPC's (which I agree would have to be seperately statted out), I think that creating them as a disposable "summonable" horde of minion level characters would be easiest.

I'm currently writing from work so don't have access to the DFRPG books, but IIRC minions simply get one/a set (can't remember which) of broad pseudo-skills for the Physical, Mental and Social spheres, and what that skill can be used for is dictated by their concept aspect (ie. mobs of reanimated zombies and loyal ninjas would likely both have a relatively high Physical 'skill', but the direction to which that could be put would be dictated primarily by their concept aspect - Ninjas being stealthy subtle agents of carnage might be able to pick a lock or stealthily steal an unguarded item, zombies being...not so subtle would probably not). This would seem to be as much as a set of player controlled minions would need skillwise.

I'd probably create it as a stunt (costing would probably need to be more than 1 refresh though due to the insane amount of variability that minions could give) that adds the 'Minions' trapping to a relevant skill (Resources for paid Mercs, a social skill (or possibly conviction) for fanatical zealots etc.).
The trapping would allow the player to roll the relevant skill vs +0 with the number of shifts indicating the number of minions that are nearby/can be called up/magically created (with them arriving at the start of the next phase), how they arrive is pretty much immaterial/flavour, whether they are summoned from the earth, drive up in their own transportation, or fade out of nearby shadows.

I'd probably limit usage of this trapping to once per 'scene' with the possible exception of spending a fate point to 'recharge' the ability (call it an invocation of whatever aspect the character has that justifies the minions).

Similar to Companion I’d suggest allowing the spending of Refresh to give the minions powers and abilities  and possibly allow the purchasing of the minion ability multiple times to justify different classifications of minions (all running on the same 'cooldown timer' though), though whether they’d share a pool of Refresh, or have to buy powers separately I don’t know.

I think that mechanically, the Minions power from Strange-Fate that I posted earlier in this thread does some similar stuff (though slightly more complicated due to the more ‘crunchy’ nature of that system), but cutting it down somewhat by removing the power tiers and varied levels of minions seems to still be workable.