Embassies and Thresholds

[zenten]

So I was just at the Japanese Embassy here in Ottawa, which is basically in the "Embassy District" of town, and I was thinking about thresholds, and how I could see an embassy providing one.  What are your thoughts on this?

[UmbraLux]

A residential suite inside the embassy might provide a threshold similar to an apartment.  I don't see how the public areas would. 

What were you considering?

[tetrasodium]

So I was just at the Japanese Embassy here in Ottawa, which is basically in the "Embassy District" of town, and I was thinking about thresholds, and how I could see an embassy providing one.  What are your thoughts on this?

I think the threshold might be strange with an embassy if one exists.  The demarcation line is possibly the gate, rather than the door to the building.  using some ghost story backing as support for this next part, but I think it might apply to citizens/non-citizens rather than occupants/non-occupants of a home like normal

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ghost-Harry was not a normal shade  & could enter the church without so much as a hint of trouble because he was running around as a soul rather than a shade, but regular thresholds everywhere else would still stop him cold.

if it's an embassy where they throw a lot of parties and have a lot of visitors, the threshold in the building might even be weaker due to the business diluting it letting mortals think of it as a place they are welcomed in

[sinker]

I don't think they would have a threshold in the sense that we all think of. It is a place of business and at least sort-of open to the public. It is however technically another nation, and since we see those imaginary lines as solid boundaries so too would the metaphysical world (just like a river or a fence can act as a threshold).

[Todjaeger]

Granted this is just how I do it, but I treat every potential barrier as a Threshold.  So an Embassy building would indeed have a Threshold, since the building itself is a barrier and demarcation point between being 'outside' and being 'inside'.

Having said that, and since it is a public building with people coming and going, I would give it Threshold: 0, or perhaps Threshold: 1 if there is something about it which could/would inspire the sort of feelings which strengthen a Threshold.

Basically an Embassy has a Threshold weak enough to not really stop or suppress any sort of inbound magical effect, person or entity, but it IS there, so a Ward could be raised on the Embassy.

Incidentally, Wards and Thresholds are starting to get interesting in a campaign I'm involved it.  I'll post more when it's available.

-Cheers

[Sanctaphrax]

So I'm not the only Ottawa guy here. Cool.

Anyway, I agree with Sinker.

An embassy has the same threshold as the border between nations.

[SunlessNick]

I agree that an embassy wouldn't provide a Threshold in the supernatural sense, except perhaps for residential parts where the same people have lived a while - though even then I doubt they'd be any better than Harry's pad, even if a family lived there, as the home still isn't really theirs.

[Arcane]

At the very least, the Vatican's embassies might have potent thresholds.

[Richard_Chilton]

Embassies - at there heart - are places of business.  They look after their nation's interest and traveling citizens. 

I could see personal apartments inside an embassy having a threshold.  I can see the boundaries being used as boundaries to anchor something.  I just can't see the building itself having threshold.

Virtually every place has boundaries.  Hotel room define who is and who isn't a guest.  Business define who can and can't enter the business.  Schools define who can and who can't enter them.  The list is near endless, but it's the "this is our home / our place of safety in the big bad world" places that form thresholds.

As for the Vatican's embassies (which if memory serves are called something other than embassy), I could see them having the "holy ground acting as a threshold" more than having a real threshold.

Richard

[sinker]

Virtually every place has boundaries.  Hotel room define who is and who isn't a guest.  Business define who can and can't enter the business.  Schools define who can and who can't enter them.  The list is near endless, but it's the "this is our home / our place of safety in the big bad world" places that form thresholds.

Except the things that we view as boundaries become actual boundaries. Consider a fence around a graveyard. A graveyard is not a home. Not all graveyards are holy ground(usually just the ones attached to churches). And yet (ghost story spoilers):

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Harry admits that he could not possibly have made it to his own grave had the gate not been open.

He even talks in grave peril (I think? It's whichever one with the Kravos/Nightmare) about how the fence around a graveyard acts as a powerful barrier. We see it as something that separates one thing from another and so it does. Now imagine how much more a border between nations would be in comparison to a simple fence.

Now it isn't going to have all of the aspects of a threshold. It's not going to suppress supernaturals once they are inside. But it is going to be one wicked zone border for things effected like that.

On a side note I live next to one of the only cemeteries that I know to have no fence or wall all the way around. One of the sides is completely open.

[Todjaeger]

Something people keep forgetting is that a Threshold: 0 doesn't impact the supernatural.  So a place of business will have a Threshold (unless it's an open-air market or similar...) but without either a Ward to hang off the Threshold, someone/something to strengthen is then the Supernatural can come right through.

-Cheers

[fantazero]

unless its something really special to your character, like how an Israeli Wizard going to the Iranian Embasy or something along that lines I cant see it being a problem.

now are the places warded? I bet.

[Richard_Chilton]

On a side note I live next to one of the only cemeteries that I know to have no fence or wall all the way around. One of the sides is completely open.

Then move - NOW! Before they get you!

Back on topic, if you look under veils in Your Story will find a bit on boundaries - how a veil is contained by defined by boundaries.

Thresholds are generated by someone living in an area (apartment, house, cave, etc).  Often they are weak (i.e. a bachelor like Harry who lives alone) but they exist where people sleep.

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there's a brief bit near the end of GS and the problem caused by some of the bad guys sleeping at the lair.

.  Holy ground has something that's close enough to where people live to called a threshold.  Where no threshold exists a boundary can be established and a Ward tied to that (instead of the threshold).

I've looked though the books and various WoJs and I have seen anything in the setting as written that says other types of thresholds exist - but if people want to modify the setting, that's great.  I can see a narrow strip in the food court, the one between McDonald's and Burger King, becoming a boundary like that.

Of course, I could have missed something.  Some WoJ or some reference in one of the books.  If it's out there then maybe one the keepers of the WoJs will parachute in an enlighten us.  It's happened before.

Richard

[zenten]

Well, my reasoning is that there's a ton of focus on the barrier surounding an embassy, both symbolic, legal, and practical everyday focus.  Moreso than any other non-home I can think of.  I figure that should have some metaphysical weight to it.  I can also think that it's something if it was true that wouldn't have come up in the books, given the lack of embassies in Chicago.

[toturi]

I can see the public areas of the embassy having a Threshold of 0. But the "inner sanctums" would have a more substantial Threshold. In fact, for some countries' embassies, the public areas may well have threshold 1 or higher during certain times.

It is a Hollywood staple that during times of crisis, US citizens find sanctuary at the embassy because as the song goes, the embassy is guarded by the US Marine Corps. So in times of crisis, any magical creature wanting to get into the US embassy has to identify itself as an American citizen, holding a US passport and "invited" in by the Marine guard at the gate.