A few questions on thresholds and Incite Emotion for blocks

[Tedronai]

Alternatively, would it be too out there to consider "A person with Bless This House lives here" as one of those narrative aspects that bolsters the natural threshold?

That seems reasonable to me, both as a partial solution to the power's problems, and under the RAW re: determining a threshold's strength.

[Sanctaphrax]

Having Bless This House punish you for having an exceptional threshold is just plain silly. Benefiting friends more than yourself is in theme, but benefiting only friends with crappy thresholds makes little sense.

Having Bless This House be a narrative threshold booster is reasonable, but it does kinda draw attention to the screwed-up-ness of the power's mechanics.

PS: If I keep going at my current rate, I'll almost certainly end up writing a second edition eventually. But that's a ways off right now.

[computerking]

Has anyone considered its opposite number?
I'm working on some Demonic stuff, and a "Pox on Both Your Houses" Threshold reducing power seems like a natural fit for a "Knight of the Profane".

And in facing off against such an attack, someone inside with "Bless this House" becomes much more useful...

[Silverblaze]

Trying to get a consensus on this:

What creatures in the DV get a threshold?

Red Court Infected: yes
Red Court Vampire: no
White Court Vampire: maybe
White Court Virgin: Yes
Changelings: yes
Wizards: yes
Sorcerors: yes
Minor Talents: yes
Focused Practitioner: yes
Shapeshifters, mortal: maybe - likely yes
Shapeshifters, not mortal:  no
Fae: no
Black Court Vampires: no
Thralls and Renfields: maybe - likely no
Ghouls: maybe, likely not (they do have families though....)
Werewolves - Alpha style: yes
Wereforms other: maybe
Lycanthropes: maybe, likely yes
Hexenwolves: maybe, likely yes
Loup Garou: yes (he is usually ~human~)
Critter-Were's (example Wolfwere - Tera West): maybe...likely no
Denarians: I have no idea
Demons: no
Angels: no
Ghosts: no
Spirits - other:no
True Believers: yes
Pure Mortals: yes
animals: no
Scions: maybe - in most cases yes
Dragons: maybe, likely no
Dragons with a capital "D":maybe - likely no
Minor Deities: maybe an equivalent
Deities:maybe an equivalent
Outsiders: no
assorted mythical beasts: case by case scenario - assume no


please repost with your findings and/or opinions.

[Silverblaze]

Do true beleivers have their powers removed while in thresholds if not invited in?

Can a threshold be used to keep things in? 

Do items of power weaken when brought across a threshold?

What strength should a sunrise have?  Seems to obliterate ghosts and spells (depending upon duration) - so it should be pretty strong.

When in the nevernever - if there is a residence can it have a threshold?  if so, does that mean creatures of the nevernever can have thresholds (at least within the nevernever)?

Can/should a demense have a threshold?

To go along with the above post of mine: What qualities are required by a being to have a threshold? Sentience? A soul? Surely, it is not a matter of good and evil.

[sinker]

What creatures in the DV get a threshold?

I think this goes back to the old question of what creatures have a soul, and keep in mind that a lot of this has no reference, it's just drawn from actual lore and my gut. So:

Shapeshifters: maybe
wereforms other: maybe

Depends, are they mortal (or at least part mortal)?

lycanthropes: maybe, likely yes
hexenwolves: maybe, likely yes

Definitely yes to both of these, however they both have lifestyles/activities that would hinder a threshold's development.

loup garou: yes (he is usually ~human~)

He definitely has a soul. For whatever reason I'm unlikely to hold his inner monster against him. It's not like it's his choice to do these things.

critter-were (example wolf were tera West): maybe...likely no

That is a weird one. Honestly I'd lean towards yes, for the same reason Thomas gets one. Also I just like the character.

denarians: I have no idea

The host: Yes, though again, lifestyle/activities.
The fallen: No, definitely not.

Scions: maybe - in most cases yes

Almost always yes. I don't think they have the same option as the changeling. Even if they choose their supernatural heritage, I don't think they can ever be fully that, so I think they are always at least a little mortal.

dragons: maybe, likely no

Yeah I'd go probably not on that one too.

Do true beleivers have their powers removed while in thresholds if not invited in?

Technically yes, but it is a bit weird.

Can a threshold be used to keep things in? 

My inclination is not a standard house threshold. They just aren't made like that.

Do items of power weaken when brought across a threshold?

I'd say yup.

What strength should a sunrise have?  Seems to obliterate ghosts and spells (depending upon duration) - so it should be pretty strong.

It's strong as long as you don't have a piece of meat to hide in. It's not going to effect BCV or RCV for example (other than the actual light of the sun of course).

When in the nevernever - if there is a residence can it have a threshold?  if so, does that mean creatures of the nevernever can have thresholds (at least within the nevernever)?

Hmm, that's an interesting one. My gut says no, because it doesn't have soil to grow in (both metaphorically and literally).

Can/should a demense have a threshold?

A Demesne should have it's own unique protections. I'd say no for the threshold.

To go along with the above post of mine: What qualities are required by a being to have a threshold? Sentience? A soul? Surely, it is not a matter of good and evil.

Yeah, I'd go with a soul.

[Tedronai]

Thralls and Renfields: maybe - likely no

Subtly enthralled individuals should still have a threshold.  Roughly enthralled individuals might have a threshold.  I highly doubt that a Renfield would.
Remember, 'thrall' can include anything as delicate as Justine's addiction through Lord Wraith and even the utterly destroyed Renfields.


Beyond that, I largely agree with sinker's post, above.



For the case of thresholds keeping things in, I direct you to graveyards.  Note that a graveyard's threshold does not keep things out.  This leads me to believe that they are mono-directional, but can exist / be created in either direction.

[Sanctaphrax]

Has anyone considered its opposite number?
I'm working on some Demonic stuff, and a "Pox on Both Your Houses" Threshold reducing power seems like a natural fit for a "Knight of the Profane".

And in facing off against such an attack, someone inside with "Bless this House" becomes much more useful...

Sounds like a pretty weak power. Vulnerability to thresholds is almost optional.

Giving sunrise a threshold value sounds like a mistake to me. It'd likely be best to model it as a Compel or as part of Spirit Form's effects.

[sinker]

Subtly enthralled individuals should still have a threshold.  Roughly enthralled individuals might have a threshold.  I highly doubt that a Renfield would.

I see thralls like Lycanthropes, or Denarian hosts. They still have souls, and are capable of generating a threshold, but they're unlikely to do all of the things that make a good threshold.

[Silverblaze]

Sounds like a pretty weak power. Vulnerability to thresholds is almost optional.

Giving sunrise a threshold value sounds like a mistake to me. It'd likely be best to model it as a Compel or as part of Spirit Form's effects.

So I could spend a fate point to ignore the sunrise as a spirit?

[Tedronai]

So I could spend a fate point to ignore the sunrise as a spirit?

You could spend a FP to not have sunrise cause a problem for you that would be worthy of the effect of a Compel.
Maybe that means you find a willing host for you to inhabit (see Bob and Mister's field trips), maybe your plans manage to stay sufficiently unhindered until nightfall when you can safely resume activities, or any number of other convenient circumstances arise to prevent you from being overly hindered by the day.


@sinker:
I don't think Renfields would get a threshold, and I'm pretty sure that they're basically just the extreme end of the 'roughly enthralled' spectrum, which would mean there is some point there where thralls stop gaining thresholds.

[Sanctaphrax]

Tedronai is right.

You can't shrug off the sunrise, but you can narrate it away. And compels/compel refusals have narrative force.

[Mr. Death]

(click to show/hide)

The thugs that Corpsetaker seemed to have thralled had a pretty solid threshold, but they're probably on the lower end--more mundane brainwashing than supernatural, since the shade of Corpsetaker didn't really have the power for much more than that.

[sinker]

@Tedronai: I think we're arguing semantics on this one. I think Renfields still have a soul and thus the potential to create a threshold, but they'd have to deeply care for themselves and their fellows, put some love and care into their surroundings, and really make a home. I don't see that as likely behavior for them. I just think it's important to note that they aren't soulless monsters.

[Tedronai]

Whereas, from their descriptions, I don't see Renfields as capable of truly caring for themselves, others, or anything other than following the most recent commands of their master.
Renfields might still have a soul, but they no longer possess a mind of their own

The victim is crushed
into total thralldom by brute psychic force; this
destroys the victim’s mind, leaving him no good
for anything but gibbering violence. In many
ways, Renfields aren’t people anymore.

which seems to me quite sufficient to deny one the capacity to call any place 'home' in such a way as for that place to generate a threshold as a result.