A few questions on thresholds and Incite Emotion for blocks

[UmbraLux]

I think your improvement is RAW as it is, UmbraLux.  The title and description of the feat do seem to differ from the mechanics listed under effects, but I would argue that the defined mechanics (which say that all that is needed is your presence in a place that has a threshold) trumps both the decription (more or less flavor text) and title (entirely flavor text).

I agree, I just think it gets overlooked on occasion. 

[Silverblaze]

I assume monsters do not get thresholds...but snce wizards do...do Whampires?

I guess my next question is what creatures qualify for having a threshold?  red court infected ..yes?  Changeling - yes?  Fae - no...?

Alpha style werewolves?  yes?  I hope...

[sinker]

I assume monsters do not get thresholds...but snce wizards do...do Whampires?

Thomas would if he had a better home life (until recently), Lara probably no, though she does live in a family home that has had generations of mortals (virgins) call it home.

I guess my next question is what creatures qualify for having a threshold?  red court infected ..yes?  Changeling - yes?  Fae - no...?

Yup, sounds about right.

Alpha style werewolves?  yes?  I hope...

I'm sure Billy and Georgia have a great threshold.

[Silverblaze]

Important to clarify this stuff.  Thanks.

[Sanctaphrax]

So does Charity. (have Bless This House)  They both have a conviction higher than the normal threshold...giving them like a 10 threshold.  Hard to make a bad guy meaningful when he/she/it loses 10 from it's shifts, has a 10 shift block on the remaining powers, and may be taking a 10 shift hit each round it exists inside the threshold if it was pure spirit.

Still pretty useless most of the time, but I think the above mentioned situation is pretty nice.

You never weighed in on the rest of the thread though.  please do so.

Unfortunately, that is not the case. A threshold's value starts at 2 and gets +2 for every narrative factor boosting it. Since the Carpenters are a big, loving, highly religious, and divinely favoured family they almost certainly have a base threshold of 6 or more. Which means that without Epic Conviction Michael and Charity can't use their Bless This House with it. And even if they could, they'd get more benefit from adding "my family has lived here for 150 years" to their backstory.

Actually, I'd say that less than half of all Bless This House users can actually use Bless This House on their own home.

Far as the rest of the thread is concerned I agree with UmbraLux. But I don't think that roads are thresholds, because that would prevent ghosts from crossing the street.

[UmbraLux]

Far as the rest of the thread is concerned I agree with UmbraLux. But I don't think that roads are thresholds, because that would prevent ghosts from crossing the street.

You're probably correct.  Tend to think some things need to be represented as a "proto-threshold" or threshold of zero.

A normal fence line is 0 - capable of becoming something more but not there without outside help.  Put that fence line around a cemetery (or put a cemetery inside the fence) and peoples' view of it as a barrier between here and hereafter give it the impetus to become a true threshold.

[Silverblaze]

Unfortunately, that is not the case. A threshold's value starts at 2 and gets +2 for every narrative factor boosting it. Since the Carpenters are a big, loving, highly religious, and divinely favoured family they almost certainly have a base threshold of 6 or more. Which means that without Epic Conviction Michael and Charity can't use their Bless This House with it. And even if they could, they'd get more benefit from adding "my family has lived here for 150 years" to their backstory.

Actually, I'd say that less than half of all Bless This House users can actually use Bless This House on their own home.

Far as the rest of the thread is concerned I agree with UmbraLux. But I don't think that roads are thresholds, because that would prevent ghosts from crossing the street.

Couldn't one apply bless this house before situational factors?  or if multiple people possessing bless this house lived behind a threshold couldn't they just forego the narrative boosts in favor of the larger bonus?

If none of these are possible, then my fix for Bless this House is to remove the conviction requirement ... (being higher than the threshold...might make it useful-ish).

[Tedronai]

Couldn't one apply bless this house before situational factors?  or if multiple people possessing bless this house lived behind a threshold couldn't they just forego the narrative boosts in favor of the larger bonus?

Not by RAW, no.

[Silverblaze]

Not by RAW, no.

Oh.

Well, I hope my table handles it differently, but I know better than to argue against RAW around here.  I'll just say I don't like it and cede that Bless This House indeed sucks.

[Sanctaphrax]

Changing that would be a good way to make Bless This House more useful.

But honestly, I'd rather just ditch it. I'm not sure what it adds to the game.

[Silverblaze]

Changing that would be a good way to make Bless This House more useful.

But honestly, I'd rather just ditch it. I'm not sure what it adds to the game.

RAW says you need it to be a True Believer or Knight of the Cross.

Otherwise I'd love to have my refresh back.  Trust me.

[Sanctaphrax]

It's funny, isn't it, how the longer you play a game and the more you talk about it the more problems you find.

Even a comparatively well-constructed game like this one leaves me wanting to write a new edition after a while.

[Silverblaze]

It's funny, isn't it, how the longer you play a game and the more you talk about it the more problems you find.

Even a comparatively well-constructed game like this one leaves me wanting to write a new edition after a while.

Oh, I totally agree.  I always likened this system to a First Edition.  Which...it is technically.  I wouldn't mind some rules errata in the Paranet book.

Don't get me wrong.  By and large, I love the system.  I just see a lot of little tweaks, I'd like to see.  Clarifications and such.

Aside from that.  I really like playing a holy roller character.  I can't see myself enjoying much else as much as I like this archetype.  bad guys fear you (kinda) and you know you're a good guy at least 70 % of the time.  Don't get me wrong I love grey area's and anti-heroes, I just have very much enjoyed this revelation about thresholds and my ability to "in theory" make them better.

[Mr. Death]

Well, it might be that Bless This House isn't intended to be used primarily on the person's own home--as has been pointed out, if Michael Carpenter is any indication, their home's probably going to have a much higher threshold than normal. But it is useful if they're going anywhere else, and as I recall one of the things about a Knight of the Cross is that they're called away from home a lot.

So Michael Carpenter's Bless This House might not do much to bolster the threshold of his own house, but it might make a difference on those occasions he ends up at Harry's apartment, or if he's traveling somewhere. If he and Charity go somewhere, that's an almost guaranteed +4 to a threshold whatever residence they find themselves at.

Though this creates something of an odd case where if you have a whole family with the power, they'll have a higher threshold in someone else's place than their own, now that I think of it. Then again, it's probably fitting that a power based on faith and good works and all that jazz has more benefit for others than for the user.

Alternatively, would it be too out there to consider "A person with Bless This House lives here" as one of those narrative aspects that bolsters the natural threshold?

[Silverblaze]

Well, it might be that Bless This House isn't intended to be used primarily on the person's own home--as has been pointed out, if Michael Carpenter is any indication, their home's probably going to have a much higher threshold than normal. But it is useful if they're going anywhere else, and as I recall one of the things about a Knight of the Cross is that they're called away from home a lot.

So Michael Carpenter's Bless This House might not do much to bolster the threshold of his own house, but it might make a difference on those occasions he ends up at Harry's apartment, or if he's traveling somewhere. If he and Charity go somewhere, that's an almost guaranteed +4 to a threshold whatever residence they find themselves at.

Though this creates something of an odd case where if you have a whole family with the power, they'll have a higher threshold in someone else's place than their own, now that I think of it. Then again, it's probably fitting that a power based on faith and good works and all that jazz has more benefit for others than for the user.

Alternatively, would it be too out there to consider "A person with Bless This House lives here" as one of those narrative aspects that bolsters the natural threshold?

I like the idea, but I'm biased.  Therefore the answer is likely ...yes.  Sadly.