Seperate consequences for social combat aka consequences of consequences part II

[noclue]

Well, partially that's to avoid exactly the boring physical combat you describe. Imagine how much longer and less diverse a combat would be if only physical consequences mattered.

And presumably your player chose to accept the social consequence because continuing that struggle was more imortant than offering the concession or being taken out. If they chose to take a social consequence and got full benefit for their conscious decision, whining about it later because their choice had a cost is really a bit much don't you think? Decisions have consequences in FATE. That's why they call them consequences.

Look at it this way: what if there were no Consequences and you gave everyone three Resource points that they could spend to soak 4 stress points each. One of your players spends his RP in an argument with a White Court Vampire. Later, he's in a Fight with a werewolf and gets taken out. Is he going to argue you should give him his spent RP back because it wasn't used in a fight? That's functionally the same situation.

[Silverblaze]

I see your point noclue, yet let me offer you another perspective.

I like my roleplaying more than combat, I really do, but if i do get in a fight I don't want punished for sticking out a role playing and social opportunity.  With social combat, they have a goal of getting me to talk or calm me down, upset me etc. yes?  Knowing I'll have to fight to defend people later - that's what i do with this character...I should just take my first hit to social stress and be taken out or concede most times?  That kinda sucks.  I think it makes a game harder for the GM to run if every encounter including social has to be balanced to  character skills in the group or the players just get steam rolled everytime.  Whereas if you avoid social combat altogether everyone can sit around, roleplay, roll some dice for effect, and get something out of it.

There isn't this metagame sitting in the back of your mind saying... "if you take those consequences you won't be able to save "character X" later if they get in trouble."  I see it as a deterrent to be social and roleplay and I dislike that.

I totally think actions should have consequences, I just don't think every single encounter should impact my mental combat, social combat, and physical combat.  Calling every encounter a combat makes me feel like the game is more hack and slash than storytelling and roleplay....even though I know that isn't true.

I honestly think I was trying to find a way to salvage social combat in my games and I see now for my play style, it really isn't possible for me to enjoy that part of the system.  Even the words Social Combat...they just don't go together in my head.  I understand hte analogy of delivering attacks with razor with or exchanging barbs...but I think taken as a whole it just doesn't work for me.  Which would maek one think the system falls apart.  Not for me...I just ignore the social stresses part.  Social blocks and skills still have purpose to translate roleplaying into the game, but combat?  Not so much, not for this guy anyhow.

[polkaneverdies]

How long are you keeping the consequences around and how soon is it going from chit chat to bleeding?

[noclue]

@silverblaze, I think it's a good thing to know what we like and don't like. So that's cool. My perspective is a little different. I don't see it as a deterrent to roleplay at all. But it makes me think hard about whether I need to win an argument bad enough. There's always a thought in the back of my head about how important any conflict is to my character. Taking a consequence to stay in the fight is always a deliberate choice. I like that. It means I'm always thinking about whether a concession makes sense and when I say fuck no, I'm taking a Consequence, it's a major deal. It's not just a throw away because I was mindlessly fighting back. Sometimes, that means I have to make hard choices between competing goals. I like that. And sometimes I get taken out by a damn werewolf and I'm wishing I had saved up a consequence...and I like that, too.

Oh, and that Consequence I picked up because I didn't want to lose the argument? Well, I know it's there, and I know that I can't take as much stress any more, so, I'm probably looking to accept compels, in order to have extra Fate to spend to bring down my margin of failure later. And, I like that.

EDIT: the game doesn't say to treat every encounter as a combat by the way. That's totally a choice that the GM and players make.

[ways and means]

I have to admit the mingling of social and physical consequences has meant in my games that physical character don't take part in social combat (sit aside picking nails with a knife whilst waiting for the fighting to start) or choose to interrupt social combat by attacking someone (this happens a lot) it kind of steals social characters thunder.  I deal with this by allowing social characters to use social attacks in combat but I know a lot of players don't allow that.