Evocation vs Mental/Social Track

[UmbraLux]

More than anything I think I'm trying to say that I would likely compel in that circumstance. Consider that many mortals probably have some measure of discipline. In that case given decent rolls they may actually get close to holding the attacker off, and given the opportunity to make declarations/maneuvers/blocks about the landscape of their mind they may be able to comfortably hold an attacker off indefinitely. This seems incongruous with the concept of a pure mortal with no experience in the supernatural.

Two counterpoints:  1) The attacker can make declarations also, it's just likely to be harder since she doesn't control the mental "landscape".  So a skilled attacker against an unskilled mortal isn't likely to have many problems.  2) Marcone essentially defeated Harry in a psychic contest (the Soulgaze).  So mortals should have some chance of prevailing. 

[sinker]

2) Marcone essentially defeated Harry in a psychic contest (the Soulgaze).  So mortals should have some chance of prevailing.

But in that case Marcone was prepared for it, and even baiting Harry into it.  That's quite different than a neuromancer invading the mind of John Q. Public who has no experience with anything supernatural.

I'm not saying that all mortals are incapable of defending themselves.  I'm saying that "in the dark" mortals shouldn't be capable of defense on that level, especially when they have no idea what's coming.  What I'm saying is that I would likely look at the situation and choose to compel those who have appropriate aspects.

[UmbraLux]

Agreed.  I'm not suggesting being able to control your own mental landscape be an "I win" button either.  But something along the lines of +1 to Declarations might be appropriate.  It wouldn't be enough to overcome a significant difference in Discipline, but it would give home field advantage to someone who was "close".

I should also point out that I'm simply speculating.  Any such bonus should be considered as part of a system - that mini-game Becq mentioned. 

[ways and means]

I think to make such declarations you would have to know what was going on without any understanding of mental combat or the situation you probably would be beaten before even knowing you could fight back.

[UmbraLux]

Possibly.  Though given the number of oddball, disparate, and down contradictory beliefs people can hold I'm not sure knowledge of what's going on is really needed. 

Question though, do we want to delve into such a min-game creation here?  We may have derailed this thread enough...

[The Mighty Buzzard]

Possibly.  Though given the number of oddball, disparate, and down contradictory beliefs people can hold I'm not sure knowledge of what's going on is really needed. 

Mortal evocators are almost certainly intimately familiar with those kind of contradictions.

Question though, do we want to delve into such a min-game creation here?  We may have derailed this thread enough...

Heck no!  The only way I could justify burning up that much play time on one evocation is if it were the culmination of a story-arc-ending battle.

[ARedthorn]

Some in-the-dark mortals... those who practice meditation for spirituality's sake, for example, should be nearly as prepared as minor-to-moderate talents... maybe some people with particularly hard-set beliefs, creative or structured minds. Monks are bad juju. So are lawyers. Lawyer-monks are the worst.

I like the idea of making it a mini-game... emphasis on mini. If it derails play, it's not worth it's weight, no matter how good a system it is... and I don't think it would necessarily need to be burning play time on one evocation... I see it representing a series of turns real-world... perhaps something that can be run in parallel to the rest of the table.

[sinker]

That's actually one of the things suggested in the book. That mental conflict could be run along side (but still within) physical conflict. I really do like that, and I've run it that way in the past.

[The Mighty Buzzard]

Yeah, I could see it running like that well enough.  I'm not sure my personal brain could stretch far enough to keep two separate scenes pictured at the same time though.  Guess I could give it a shot and find out.

[UmbraLux]

Agreed.  I think I'd run it like a combat decker from Shadowrun.  Those in mental combat would have to choose between acting physically or mentally.  If they tried to split or alternate actions, they'd be open to declarations of 'distracted' or something similar.  Which is probably why you don't see too much mental combat during physical altercations...have to protect your meat shell.  Sorry, channeling Shadowrun...

[devonapple]

Agreed.  I think I'd run it like a combat decker from Shadowrun.  Those in mental combat would have to choose between acting physically or mentally.  If they tried to split or alternate actions, they'd be open to declarations of 'distracted' or something similar.  Which is probably why you don't see too much mental combat during physical altercations...have to protect your meat shell.  Sorry, channeling Shadowrun...

We're actually starting up a ShadowRun game using the DFRPG ruleset.

[Sanctaphrax]

That sounds like something I'd like to hear more about.

[devonapple]

That sounds like something I'd like to hear more about.

I'll post what I can, but we're going to be relying on pre-existing ShadowRun/DFRPG/FATE conversions already:
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?526121-Fate-Shadowrun-My-attempt-at-a-Shadowrun-Fate-conversion

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wJhb1O8tMxejtPjaW43O4SphGZlZJqAI7lc5le3JHRE/edit?hl=en
https://docs.google.com/document/d/10q326kcfWxSA7ZDQUk4MW5dyhHz6mBt10LMnvPmhYoQ/edit?hl=en
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fyvoLnX1IfV3CIpbXf5QPolcImGfTg325mBNOCQMs-0/edit?hl=en

My community's advice is simply to use Powers and Stunts to do everything, and simply leave the chrome as flavor, or perhaps an Aspect to be Compelled/Invoked.

[UmbraLux]

Sounds cool!  Shadowrun was a favorite for many years.  I'll have to check out your links after work. 

[InFerrumVeritas]

So I allow them.  I think they fit thematically. 

However, I also use them.  My players are very wary of their mental stress tracks. 

I've also made provisions for mental defenses.  Specifically, I allow Alertness to defend against our Illusionist's mental attacks in addition to Discipline, and let it boost it (other types of mental attacks are decidedly lawbreaking, but his work on distraction and disorientation).  Combat is quick and dirty. 

However, we've been fighting the white court, old school necromancers, and some black court vampires.  Mental stress is a two way street.

Against other types of monsters, they know it's a risk.  Zone wide mental attacks seem to be the biggest problem, but they also shut down the whole party so we're pretty good there.  Single target attacks are very effective.

Still playtesting it though.