Telekinetic Spells

[JStreet]

Situation one: 
I have a player that made a spell For Throwing/Moving things.  8 Stress in to the spell, How far would you be able to throw someone straight in to the air?  We estimated a Crotch-rocket would be up to 600 pounds, (stress 8 can throw a motorcycle, or pick up a compact car).  Average person being 200 pounds.  600/200 = 3.  3x8(stress) = 24 feet.  12 stress when they pancake on the ground.  Sound about right?

Situation 2:  Trying to throw someone out a window.  Roll to hit target (using Discipline), then roll to aim at the window.  My problem is that the rote is high enough that most people cant make the athletics to block it or catch themselves.  :S

Situation 3: Same player wants to make a lesser version over multiple rounds.  Basically wants to yo-yo the bad guys for damage.

Any help/suggestions?  I like the idea of the first 2... just not sure how to defend against it.

[devonapple]

Situations 1 and 2:
What is the narrative/game consequence of being thrown into the air (or out the window)?

Disadvantageous position? It's an evocation maneuver, presumably against the target's Athletics.
Stress? It's an evocation attack dealing X stress.
Extra gravity damage? That's considered poor form, and the rules discourage it: just use an evocation attack dealing X stress.
Stress and disadvantageous position? Not really rules-legal, but options have been discussed elsewhere on these boards.

Moving something should start with the Might rules, and then translate the required Might to lift/throw X object into the shifts for the spell.

Situation 3:
Currently not rules-legal. My recommendation would simply be to stack up Evocation Maneuver Aspects over several rounds and then tag them alongside a final, finishing Evocation Attack.

[Haru]

There is a section in the book that explicitly states that an attack that includes someone falling should not include additional falldamage, for pretty much the reasons you listed. The falling down part is then just part of the narrative, not part of the damage.
Actually having someone fall down should be a taken out result.

To move someone, you can simply have a number of shifts in the spell that move the target but don't do damage. A power:5 spell could move someone up to 5 zones away, minus borders of course. Remember here, that the game measures distance in zones, not feet. You can't deal stress that way. A weapon:8 spell that also moves the target for 8 shifts is way overpowered.

DoT spells have been discussed, and though I supported them before, I oppose them now. Again, it should be a narrative thing, not a mechanical thing. Dealing 8 shifts of stress in one exchange can easily be described as bouncing someone up and down, it just won't happen for multiple exchanges.

[JStreet]

edit: found it.  Thanks

[Haru]

It's on page 319 under "Falling". The relevant passage starts about halfway down.

[Richard_Chilton]

Situation 3: Same player wants to make a lesser version over multiple rounds.  Basically wants to yo-yo the bad guys for damage.

Evocations can be given a duration - one shift per exchange.  Not sure how it work here...

Of course to be effective you'd need a lot of steps and probably an attack roll each time...  But if you're treating the target as effectively grappled that would one Evocation grappling while doing damage, combining a maneuver with an attack...  Don't have the book handy but I'm almost positive that you can't do that.

Richard

[computerking]

But if you're treating the target as effectively grappled that would one Evocation grappling while doing damage, combining a maneuver with an attack...  Don't have the book handy but I'm almost positive that you can't do that.

Normally, something like this sounds like a Special Effect attack, where post-defense targeting shifts do stress, but I don't know of any way to make that do damage over several exchanges.

[The Mighty Buzzard]

Situation 3 isn't doable with straight evocation according to Harry in a side bar in YW.  Eb and Lara Wraith might disagree given their altercation in TC though.

[Tedronai]

Situation 3 isn't doable with straight evocation according to Harry in a side bar in YW.  Eb and Lara Wraith might disagree given their altercation in TC though.

That's all about how you fluff things.
As much as many people on this thread hate it, Orbius could easily be refluffed to represent this mechanically.

And Harry isn't know for the subtlety or nuance of his magics.  Or the reliability of his narration.

[The Mighty Buzzard]

That's all about how you fluff things.
As much as many people on this thread hate it, Orbius could easily be refluffed to represent this mechanically.

And Harry isn't know for the subtlety or nuance of his magics.  Or the reliability of his narration.

It's a flavor objection, true enough.  Flavor is arguably more important to the DFRGP than mechanics though.

[Tedronai]

Sometimes, yes.
In this case, though, where we have a novels-canon example of something like this occurring, with only an eminently-fallible-narrator-sidebar suggesting that it's not, an objection based on the flavour of the attack as being something that is not possible is rather...flawed, wouldn't you say?

[Tsunami]

Situation one: 
I have a player that made a spell For Throwing/Moving things.  8 Stress in to the spell, How far would you be able to throw someone straight in to the air?  We estimated a Crotch-rocket would be up to 600 pounds, (stress 8 can throw a motorcycle, or pick up a compact car).  Average person being 200 pounds.  600/200 = 3.  3x8(stress) = 24 feet.  12 stress when they pancake on the ground.  Sound about right?

Situation 2:  Trying to throw someone out a window.  Roll to hit target (using Discipline), then roll to aim at the window.  My problem is that the rote is high enough that most people cant make the athletics to block it or catch themselves.  :S

Situation 3: Same player wants to make a lesser version over multiple rounds.  Basically wants to yo-yo the bad guys for damage.

Any help/suggestions?  I like the idea of the first 2... just not sure how to defend against it.

Most of this has been said already... i just feel the need to participate 

1)
How high does the 8:Shift attack throw someone? Easy: High enough so that the fall would deal 8 Stress.
(which would be somewhere around 16 feet according to the falling rules)

2)
Same goes for the "out the window" Situation. The Spell is Weapon:8, hence 8 Stress.
However, you could establish the Window as an Aspect (Maneuver or Declaration) and have that add to the Spell as per the usual use of Aspects.

3)
Attack Evocations can not be made into multiple round effects. However it is possible to make a block that lasts more than one round, and describe it as bouncing the target around.

[The Mighty Buzzard]

Sometimes, yes.
In this case, though, where we have a novels-canon example of something like this occurring, with only an eminently-fallible-narrator-sidebar suggesting that it's not, an objection based on the flavour of the attack as being something that is not possible is rather...flawed, wouldn't you say?

Not really, no.  Allowing complex actions with evocation while the caster is paying attention to something else would set an enormously significant precedent.  That it is only fluff by the requested spell doesn't mean it couldn't be horribly abused by another.