Would like some help making a gun mage

[qlawdat]

I am playing in a dimension hopping game (think sliders) using the DFRPG and materials from the dresden resources website.  We are playing at the chest deep level.  I had an idea for a gun mage, and would love some help.  My thoughts so far are that he would take either Ritual (gun mage stuff) or thaumaturgy, and then refinement a few times for enchanted items..  Maybe a few gun related stunts.   My thought is that he would have a bunch of spells prepped ahead of time in his bullets, but only a limited about, hence the item route.


I have never made an item based character, so want to make sure my math is correct.    If I take ritual I would get 4 enchanted item slots, and assuming a lore of 5 I could make some of these items?  Oh, I know that there is a size limitation on items, my GM is allowing me to ignore this for the moment. 

A bullet that does a weapon 10 attack would cost 5 enchanted item slots?
A bullet that does a weapon 8 attack vs a zone would cost 5 EI slots? 
A bullet that does a defensive ability at a 10 defence would cost 5?
For the above a 10 is the max correct?

Using 1 EI slot I could increase the uses of all of the above to an extra use per session?  I am aware that you can take mental stress to get extra uses.


Once again thanks for any help.

[The Mighty Buzzard]

Well, by default magic and tech go together like sparks and gasoline.  You'd likely end up dead just trying to make the bullets.  But if your GM is fine with it for the campaign, enjoy.

Can't help on the math at the moment.  Just ate way too much dinner.

[qlawdat]

I was thinking they would be based on old revolvers, and that his magic would not have any negative impact on his guns.

[UmbraLux]

Doesn't even need to be a revolver.  The Colt 1911 has been a reliable pistol for a century and still has derivatives in production. 

From what you're describing, you should probably use the potion rules.  They make good single use magic items and have been used in a variety of forms in cannon.  That said, I'd work out exactly how damage and attack are going to stack (or not) with your GM.  Firing the equivalent of Weapon:8+ bullets may be more than he's prepared to allow.  Or it may not. 

[qlawdat]

I am working under the impression that I will have normal bullets that do gun damage, and the spells in the form of enchanted items that do whatever they do, no combining them.  I would probably be using the Guns skill to hit though.  I am mostly a bit hazy on the item creation rules.  So any help there would be very welcome.

[UmbraLux]

I am working under the impression that I will have normal bullets that do gun damage, and the spells in the form of enchanted items that do whatever they do, no combining them.  I would probably be using the Guns skill to hit though. 

That's kind of the issue - if you're combining normal weapon damage with a spell it can increase combat damage very quickly.  I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, there are sword - wizard builds that do similar things with weapons.  I'm just suggesting you ensure your GM is ready for it. 

I am mostly a bit hazy on the item creation rules.  So any help there would be very welcome.

Here's a quick version of thaumaturgic items rules - and I'm undoubtedly going to leave a few things out.  The rules also tend to allow room for interpretation...and argument.    

• First, enchanted items (and potions are enchanted items) simply store a spell.
• The unenhanced strength cannot exceed your Lore.
• You can increase the number of uses by decreasing the power.  You may also spend an item slot to get two more uses of another item.  (This makes it cheaper to have a bunch of the same spell than a variety of spells.)
• Specializations and focus items may also be used to increase strength up to twice your Lore.
• You can also increase the power of an effect by spending an item slot (decreasing the number of items available).
• Unlike normal enchanted items, you can use aspects to increase a potion's strength.  (Still limited to twice Lore.)

Since bullet launched items are probably going to affect single targets, your choices are somewhat limited.  You're also dealing with some spells which will give the victim two defense rolls - one to 'dodge' the bullet (make you miss) and a second to resist the magic (depends on the spell used). 

Hope that helps more than it confuses!  :)

[The Mighty Buzzard]

I was thinking they would be based on old revolvers, and that his magic would not have any negative impact on his guns.

I wasn't even thinking type of gun.  Simply putting an enchanted slug that close to explosives (powder and primer both) would be plenty dangerous.  Yeah, a loading machine and the explosives aren't exactly cutting edge tech but even minor mishaps can kill you when you a hopper full of powder right in front of your face.

Could it be done with tech-fouling mortal magic?  Probably.  Regularly without getting your face blown off?  Much less likely. 

[Revlid]

I wasn't even thinking type of gun.  Simply putting an enchanted slug that close to explosives (powder and primer both) would be plenty dangerous.  Yeah, a loading machine and the explosives aren't exactly cutting edge tech but even minor mishaps can kill you when you a hopper full of powder right in front of your face.

Could it be done with tech-fouling mortal magic?  Probably.  Regularly without getting your face blown off?  Much less likely.

Marcone does it in Even Hand. Uses a magic bullet enchanted by Gard to kill a Fomor cantrev. I don't see a problem here.

It'd be best to stat magic bullets as potions; they're one-use, usable by anyone, and can be declared on the fly if need be.

So, yeah, take Ritual as the cheapest non-smashy magic ability out there. That gives you 2 Focus/4 Potion slots. Then take Refinement as many times as you like for additional 2/4 slots.

Say you're playing in Submerged. This can get you a maximum of 16 Focus Item or 32 Potion Slots. You'll probably want to drop a few of those to keep your final Refresh above 1 (or get some gunslinging stunts). Maybe spend a Focus Item slot or two on your gun (or holster, or glove, or hat or something), to make it into a focus for your bullet-potions. Then spend the remaining Potion Slots on stored Evocations and Thaumaturgy, activated when you fire. Stored maneuvers and stored weapon-damage-increases seem most likely for Evocation, though you could also pull off the Wanted bullet-block thing with a stored block. Thaumaturgy could have some other effects (limited by your Lore + whatever bonuses you have + whatever Aspects you declare, remember), but the only one I can think of off the top of my head would be increasing your Guns rating as you fire.

[Pbartender]

I've got to agree with this:

It'd be best to stat magic bullets as potions; they're one-use, usable by anyone, and can be declared on the fly if need be.

You could also simply make the gun an Enchanted Item...  Normally, it fires ordinary bullets, but on occasion it can be super-charged to fire magical explosive bullets, or whatever.

Another thought is to make a wizard who's a "gun mage", but in more of a gun-fu sort of sense.  That is to say, the guns and bullets he shoots are ordinary guns and bullets, but he uses magic to make himself faster and more accurate when shoots.

[The Mighty Buzzard]

Marcone does it in Even Hand. Uses a magic bullet enchanted by Gard to kill a Fomor cantrev. I don't see a problem here.

Mortal practitioners have problems with tech.  Gard is an immortal vaklyrie.  See it now?

[qlawdat]

My GM has said that the guns would work just fine with magic.  So that is not an issue.  I like the potions idea.  So if I had 32 potion slots, how many would I need to spend to make one potion that is a weapon 10?  That is where I get confused.

[computerking]

My GM has said that the guns would work just fine with magic.  So that is not an issue.  I like the potions idea.  So if I had 32 potion slots, how many would I need to spend to make one potion that is a weapon 10?  That is where I get confused.

If your Lore is 5, 6 slots. 1 for the 5, then 5 more to add up to 10.

That is, if you don't use Refinement to increase your Crafting Strength.

[The Mighty Buzzard]

My GM has said that the guns would work just fine with magic.  So that is not an issue.  I like the potions idea.  So if I had 32 potion slots, how many would I need to spend to make one potion that is a weapon 10?  That is where I get confused.

All clear then, enjoy. EDIT: Wait, 32 potion slots?  That's a spell ability and 7 doses of refinement.  Can't be done at Chest Deep.  Most you could possibly have at Chest Deep is 24.

If your Lore is 5, 6 slots. 1 for the 5, then 5 more to add up to 10.

That is, if you don't use Refinement to increase your Crafting Strength.

And/or a crafting focus item(s).

[sinker]

I would run it as potions, ignoring the potential bullet weapon damage. Really the fact that the gun allows you to deliver the effect several zones away is advantage enough, and I've had issues with the very sword - wizard build that UmbraLux mentioned. They can get out of hand pretty quickly.

My suggestion would definitely be to take a crafting Focus or two. Each +1 there applies to every potion you make, so if you have a crafting strength +2 focus then you would be making 7 shift potions for only one slot.

You're also dealing with some spells which will give the victim two defense rolls - one to 'dodge' the bullet (make you miss) and a second to resist the magic (depends on the spell used). 

Most of the violent spells have only one defense, and that's get the hell out of it's way (athletics). I don't see why this would be different (unless we're getting into some wonky effects at which point as a GM I'd be tempted to just say "Ah, screw it" and just pick one skill for defense).

[UmbraLux]

I was thinking primarily of Maneuvers.  Most of those will probably (I'm sure exceptions are possible) be resisted separately from the bullet itself.