New Toughness Power: Swarm Body [-3]

[Revlid]

My first attempt at making a homebrew power for this game; I needed it for a "worm that walks" style baddie, but it could also be used for mundane swarms of things (assuming you're dealing with a swarm as one creature rather than statting up each individual rat, anyway).
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SWARM BODY [–3]
Description: Rather than one entity, your body is made from a multitude of lesser creatures, making you more difficult to harm.
Musts: This power comes with its own specific Catch (see page 185). If you suffer physical consequences, they must take into account the non-singular nature of your body; a demon with a body made from five-hundred-and-two stone crabs is unlikely to suffer a Broken Arm.
Skills Affected: Endurance, other physical skills.   
Effects:
Chipping Away. Physical attacks cannot inflict more than one stress on you at a time; no matter how devastating the blow, it can only target a small part of your “body”. The effects of this power are applied after additions and subtractions from weapons and armour; wielding a sword will not appreciably increase one’s ability to fight off a swarm of bees (by the same token, bees do not classically benefit from wearing kevlar).

Specific Catch. Unlike other Toughness powers, Swarm Body comes with its own preset Catch, which offers no discount. The effects of this power are completely bypassed by area attacks; that is, those attacks that encompass a great majority of the target’s body. Diminutive insect swarms would be thus affected by sprayed insecticide, while a human-sized enemy would be vulnerable to flamethrowers or suitable evocations, and even larger swarms might require more extreme measures to seriously damage. Note that a clever maneuver might force a swarm into a confined space or formation, and thereby reduce the size of the attack necessary to harm it.

[Becq]

Limiting stress recieved to one seems to me to be a lot more than a -3 power.  This is only a step less than Physical Immunity.  In a sense, it's Physical Immunity only to stress beyond the first of any attack.

[sinker]

I had the same reaction originally, but it's actually a +7 point power (one higher than mythic toughness, one lower than physical immunity) with a -4 point catch folded into it.

[Revlid]

I had the same reaction originally, but it's actually a +7 point power with a -4 point catch folded into it.

Precisely. It's a version of Physical Immunity that can be ground through over time, and has a blindingly obvious and very easy-to-access Catch.

Of course, the way its Catch works means that you can still get the double-refresh-discount thing from Physical Immunity and another Toughness power, but having this power makes Toughness much less useful for reducing damage, so that shouldn't be too much of a problem. It might be a -4 power, but I'm not too worried about that.

[EdgeOfDreams]

It's an interesting power.  This + normal toughness powers + Hulking Size would create something that takes a minimum of 8, 10, or even 12 hits before you can even START to give it consequences.  Of course, that's a pretty hefty refresh investment for something that can be defeated by just about any evocator with a sharp mind (fire blast, a wide wall of stone or force to crush the bugs all at once, etc. etc.).

This would work pretty well for a custom big bad.  I'd be a bit afraid of players complaining about how their Inhuman Strength and big honking sword is worthless, but that's just the way these things go.  Also, I would be very careful about allowing this power to fall into the hands of PC's - bad guys are outnumbered by the players far more often than the other way around.

[Revlid]

This would work pretty well for a custom big bad.

I'm glad you think so!

Of course, it'd also work pretty well for Tessa.

I'd be a bit afraid of players complaining about how their Inhuman Strength and big honking sword is worthless, but that's just the way these things go.

That's kind of what the power's for, though; the scene where the monster turns into a swarm of rats, and all the heavily-armed goodies can do is stomp their feet and hope to crush enough of him to take him down.

When statting such a form, I think I'd remove other Toughness powers; it's easy to squish bugs, there are just so many of them that you won't be able to kill them all without a bunch of friends or a lot of time.

Also, I would be very careful about allowing this power to fall into the hands of PC's - bad guys are outnumbered by the players far more often than the other way around.

Well, as with any supernatural power, they'd need a good reason to have it. And if it seems they are abusing it, a solid breath-weapon or invocation (or hell, a riot-hose) should put a crimp on their day. No reason for the baddies to be stupid, after all.

[Sanctaphrax]

Mixed feelings here.

On one hand, this game does kinda need a Swarm Body power. My Amorphous Form homebrew power + Physical Immunity was always inelegant. (Example here.)

And the mechanics here do fit the flavour well.

But on the other hand, this power does leave some stuff out. For example, grappling a swarm is pretty easy if this is all they've got to represent swarm-ness.

Also, I consider Physical Immunity to be drastically undercosted. Balancing against it is probably unwise.

And I feel a bit antsy about effects like this one, on general principles.

So yeah, mixed feelings.

PS: There's a thread on the Resources Board for custom powers.

[Revlid]

But on the other hand, this power does leave some stuff out. For example, grappling a swarm is pretty easy if this is all they've got to represent swarm-ness.

I feel like that should be a separate power, to be honest, to allow greater flexibility as to what this power represents. A vine-demon could have Swarm Body on the basis that each feeler destroyed is just an insignificant fraction of its form, and you need to hit all of them to do serious damage; but it wouldn't be automatically better at creeping under doorways.

I'd leave this power as it is, and then apply another power with the base effects (not the upgrades) of your Amorphous, which represents that effect rather well (Amorphous was, in fact, going to be the name for this one, before I decided that Swarm Body fit better).

Also, I consider Physical Immunity to be drastically undercosted. Balancing against it is probably unwise.

I originally costed this on gut-feeling, then compared it to Supernatural Toughness (on the one hand, outperforms in terms of raw damage reduction at hits of 4+ stress. on the other hand, does not increase stress track. on the third hand, has a really simple Catch), and then to Physical Immunity. I think it's alright where it is, to be honest. Each time I consider raising it to [-4] I wince over the Catch.

PS: There's a thread on the Resources Board for custom powers.

Oh? I thought that was for archived stuff?

EDIT:
I'd basically take my Swarm Body and add it to this version of your Amorphous power:
AMORPHOUS [–1]
Description: Your body is rubbery, or semi-liquid, or composed of a swarm of insects; whatever the case, barriers offer little resistance.
Skills Affected: Might, Athletics, other physical abilities.
Effects:
No Hole Too Small. Fences are hardly an obstacle to one who can slip through the posts. You can ignore all physical barriers that are not completely sealed. Magical barriers, such as thresholds, still impede you as normal.

Look Ma, No Handholds! It’s difficult enough to grab a normal opponent, let alone one who slips and wriggles through your grip. The effective Might (or other relevant skill) of any character attempting to grapple you (or maintain a grapple) is reduced by two for that purpose.

[Sanctaphrax]

Alright, you've convinced me partially.

I now agree that Swarm Body and Amorphous ought to be separate.

And I like the penalty-based wording on Amorphous better than the original. It just needs a little bit of adjustment in case someone is grappling you without Might.

But I'm still not convinced about the balance of Swarm Body. It might be roughly balanced against ordinary attacks, but it's clearly superior to Toughness against very large attacks. And for those who play above Submerged, that might mean all attacks.

(For context, I am currently GMing an 18 refresh game. One of my 5 PCs would be pretty well shut down offensively by this power, and two would have semi-serious trouble with it. Supernatural Toughness would be easier for them to deal with by a fair bit.)

It would really bother me if this power were to become the clearly optimal choice in high-powered games.

In other words, I've worked out the source of my antsy feeling.

PS: Parts of the Resources board are an archive, parts aren't. The Custom Power thread is the least archival of all.

[Revlid]

And I like the penalty-based wording on Amorphous better than the original. It just needs a little bit of adjustment in case someone is grappling you without Might.

Reworded.

But I'm still not convinced about the balance of Swarm Body. It might be roughly balanced against ordinary attacks, but it's clearly superior to Toughness against very large attacks. And for those who play above Submerged, that might mean all attacks.

Yeah, but... the thing about very large attacks is that they're quite often, well, very large. It's simple enough to describe any evocation as being large enough to zap something that's non-Hulking Size, and even on those swarms large enough to be of Hulking Size, it's two extra shifts to blast the whole zone and render this power moot. Mortals should have a fairly simple time negating it, given the all the Fate points they get (and how well-versed they need to be in Maneuvers; in fact, screw the evocation attack, the wizard should be trapping the target in a Ring Of Fire to keep them condensed enough for a strike).

(For context, I am currently GMing an 18 refresh game. One of my 5 PCs would be pretty well shut down offensively by this power, and two would have semi-serious trouble with it. Supernatural Toughness would be easier for them to deal with by a fair bit.)

What is the first PC, and what are the second two?

As a defensive power, this is cool, but its Catch is really, really broad. I don't see how they can be exploiting many other non-weapon-based (i.e. Cold Iron, Holy, Fire) Catches if they can't deal with this one.

That said, I am giving serious consideration to downgrading or outright invalidating any Inhuman-Mythic Toughness taken alongside this power. Tessa's tough in Mantis-form, but her bugs (shapeshifting to a form that includes this power) can just be stomped on.

[Tedronai]

The armour values of toughness powers don't need to stack with this power at all (just apply the powers in the proper order: armour then swarm), but I see little reason not to allow the expanded stress track to apply.

[Sanctaphrax]

PC 1: http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,22358.msg1099718.html#msg1099718

Would need to use grenades that he may or may not carry, and would be significantly disadvantaged by the need to do so.

PC 2: http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,22358.msg978054.html#msg978054

Would need something big enough to squish the whole swarm, and would take a penalty to hit when using it.

PC 3: http://silverinsanity.com/~wyvern/johann/

Would need to invent a new form on the spot with area-attack capabilities.

So far, these guys haven't used Catches much. They've just hammered through the stress and armour granted by Toughness.

[Revlid]

The armour values of toughness powers don't need to stack with this power at all (just apply the powers in the proper order: armour then swarm), but I see little reason not to allow the expanded stress track to apply.

Ah, sorry; what I meant was that the Armour from Toughness wouldn't apply if you got your attack past Swarm Body's Catch. Armour is already useless if this power applies to an attack, but I'm considering making it useless (or less powerful) even if this power doesn't apply to an attack (i.e. no bugs with Armour 2 against area attacks).

[Revlid]

PC 1: http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,22358.msg1099718.html#msg1099718

Would need to use grenades that he may or may not carry, and would be significantly disadvantaged by the need to do so.

Or he could use his "Massive Weapons", which includes a stormbolter (bolters being essentially automatic rocket-propelled grenade launchers, that shouldn't even need a maneuver for most things).

PC 2: http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,22358.msg978054.html#msg978054

Would need something big enough to squish the whole swarm, and would take a penalty to hit when using it.

Well, yeah. But he's a got a stunt specifically for it, as you note. Shouldn't be that much of a problem, surely?

PC 3: http://silverinsanity.com/~wyvern/johann/

Would need to invent a new form on the spot with area-attack capabilities.

Or just turn into an elephant and fall over onto the swarm. A thought. Or, hey, turn into a swarm yourself. As a GM, I'd say that would give him enough of an "area" to attack the majority of the swarm at once. Swarm-to-swarm combat!

So far, these guys haven't used Catches much. They've just hammered through the stress and armour granted by Toughness.

Without meaning to be rude, that strikes me more as a problem for them than for this power.

[Sanctaphrax]

Mm. To be honest, the individual examples aren't really the point.

What I'm trying to say is that this power works like Physical Immunity. Either you have the catch and you're good, or you don't and you're in serious trouble.

And given that a fair number of people seem to try for physical bruiser concepts at high refresh levels, a fair number of players would probably be in serious trouble against this.

Toughness offers the possibility of a straight fight without the catch. Both in the game and in the novels, catches only seem to be used about half the time.

In my opinion, this power is well balanced against PI. But I don't think PI is balanced, soooo....yeah.

PS: Are stormbolters really area weapons? I always figured that they were just big guns. It hasn't come up in play yet, since the player a) hardly ever posts and b) relies on his halberd given the choice.
PPS: I debated about whether or not to include Bergelmir, but ultimately decided to because a) his stunt imposes a meaningful penalty on him and b) he didn't have that stunt when the game began. There was a time when he'd have been basically sunk against this.
PPPS: The shapeshifter's player has said that he doesn't really intend to invent new forms on the fly. Not that you could have known that...
PPPPS: I actually think that my players could get creative if they had to. But so far they haven't had to, except for one time when they had no real chance to and one time when they just Declared a weakness onto some unknown-catched goons.

In other news, my PS habit is getting out of control.