DFRPG and FATE

[The Mighty Buzzard]

As far as I know it's completely up to the GM, but most people here limit it to one or two declarations per exchange at the very least (sometimes much less often).

I've had it at one per character per exchange the whole time I've GMed, with increasing difficulty the more declarations were made in a scene.  Just occurred to me that I didn't remember actually reading where it said one way or the other in YW and didn't want to hand out incorrect info to heathd666.

[Pbartender]

I am guessing that with all aspects if it is something that helps your character it costs a Fate Point if it is something that hinders your character then you get a Fate Point.

In general, yes, sort of...  If the player is using an aspect to give themselves or someone else a bonus then they have to spend a Fate Point.  If the GM is using a character's aspect to introduce a complication, then he offers a Fate Point to the player who can choose to accept it (and the complication) or refuse...  If he refuses, then he doesn't get the GM's Fate Point and he must spend a Fate Point, so it's effectively a two Fate Point loss.

If a character takes an action that inflicts an aspect on someone else, like a maneuver, he (or one of his friends) can get a free tag on that aspect, with spending a Fate Point.

Also if I describe a scene in my other example "A dark warehouse cluttered with boxes and debris" since I have already declared these they cant be Tagged by the players correct?

Quite the contrary... Scene descriptions should give good clues to obvious scene aspects.  Your warehouse should absolutely have "Dark" and "Cluttered" aspects that both the players ("I use the shadows to sneak up behind the guards," or "I try to lose the guard chasing me by dodging and weaving between stacks of crates.") and you as the GM ("In the darkness, you stumble into a pile of scrap metal and knock it over, causing an untimely racket," or "The guards dive for cover behind a row of barrels.") can use to advantage (or disadvantage). 

Of course, there may be other, hidden, aspects the the players may have to make an assessment to discover -- "Security System", for example, thereby making it more difficult to sneak into the building -- or that they could add, with your permission, using a declaration -- "Access To The Sewers", for example, thereby making it easier to sneak into the building.

[admiralducksauce]

If you have ever read Robin's Laws of Good Game Mastering  most of my players are Butt Kickers, so I will have alot to explain but first I feel I need to understand it alot better.

Dude, you'll be fine.  Me and my entire group are proud Butt Kickers and we all love DFRPG.  And yeah, I made some mistakes at first despite reading everything I could about the game, but hey, next session you say "sorry guys, I was doing Stress wrong, here's a FP to everyone for the trouble" or "Scott, that Stunt doesn't work like that.  Sorry, it's just for establishing Blocks, but if you want, you can pick a new Stunt or we can just reword what you have so you CAN use it for defense."

[sinker]

Also if I describe a scene in my other example "A dark warehouse cluttered with boxes and debris" since I have already declared these they cant be Tagged by the players correct?

Actually You're right, but I suspect that Pbartender's confusion comes from the terminology, which does trip people up often. One can only tag an aspect if someone has put effort into creating or discovering it, so declared, maneuvered or assessed aspects (consequences as well) can be tagged once for free, but scene aspects that are obvious from the beginning must be invoked with a fate point.

[admiralducksauce]

Actually You're right, but I suspect that Pbartender's confusion comes from the terminology, which does trip people up often. One can only tag an aspect if someone has put effort into creating or discovering it, so declared, maneuvered or assessed aspects (consequences as well) can be tagged once for free, but scene aspects that are obvious from the beginning must be invoked with a fate point.

LOL.  This is a good example of my previous post where I learn that I've been doing things wrong this whole time.     I've been throwing Scene Aspects out there and allowing the first invocation on them for free.  Ironically, I like doing it that way.  It hasn't caused any problems so far and it's resulted in 1) slightly quicker combats since you have those free tags from the get-go and 2) more interesting combats, as people finagle their actions around getting the free tags.

[Pbartender]

One can only tag an aspect if someone has put effort into creating or discovering it, so declared, maneuvered or assessed aspects (consequences as well) can be tagged once for free, but scene aspects that are obvious from the beginning must be invoked with a fate point.

That is precisely what I meant...  Player CAN use the described aspects, but they must use a Fate Point, since they did nothing to put them there.

It wasn't so much a misunderstanding of the terminology on my part, but more that I read the post too quickly and neglected to take notice of the terminology used.  I saw "tag", but my brain was thinking "invoke" when I wrote the response.

Sorry for the confusion.      

[heathd666]

Okay so I attempted a character today this is what I got.

Power level 
Up to your Waist and Skill Cap at Great.

His basic background is that he has no idea of who he is or what he has done there are things he just knows how to do so he drifts from place to place (big memory loss) Since I dont know much about playing or running the game this would be a good start..... Knowing absolutely nothing.

High Concept : "This is not the Droid you seek" Meaning I have no Idea of my past or why People keep seeking me out
Trouble: "Misery Loves Company" Trouble has a way of finding me
Other Aspects: "My memory is like a still pond, empty and devoid of all life, until you disturb its surface" I figured since I didnt do my 5 Aspects in a story like session that I would instead let the Gm help decide them for me in fun ways.

Skills
Great (2 slots) : Conviction,Endurance
Good (2 slots) : Lore, Discipline
Fair (3 slots) : Prescence, Alertness, Athletics
Average (5 slots) : Empathy, Fists, Might, Rapport, Stealth

Powers (Sorcerer Template)
Evocation
Thaumaturgy
Wizards Constitution

Focus Items
Gnarled Ol' Hickory staff +1 to Offensive Control and Power (Spirit Evocation)
Gold Wedding Band +1 to Defensive Control and Power (Spirit Evocation)

Stress
Physical 4
Mental 4
Social 3

Consequences
mild 1
moderate 1
severe 1

I did have some questions about this though, In Savage Worlds, you could take Hindrances to gain Edges, I couldnt find it but there is no way to buy negatives to increase Refresh correct? Also I am having a problem with figuring out a way to create a Champion of God but with a different religion for example Norse Gods liek Thor and a item of Power his Hammer. Or would that instead be a Emissary of Power? Either way I am still trying to figure out how to make the item do I use the rules for it YS167 ? The rules to me are kind of vague on this but it may be that I am new to the system.

[sinker]

I figured since I didnt do my 5 Aspects in a story like session that I would instead let the Gm help decide them for me in fun ways.

I would still make aspects if you can. They might represent what is currently important to him, even though he doesn't have memory. For example how does he feel about his lack of memory? Is there anyone who knows him from before (or since for that matter) that is important to him? What does he do (like for a living) now? etc?

I did have some questions about this though, In Savage Worlds, you could take Hindrances to gain Edges, I couldnt find it but there is no way to buy negatives to increase Refresh correct?

There are a couple of powers that give you refresh back (like human form, feeding dependency, or the catch) but they're mostly about reducing the cost of powers rather than actually giving you refresh. Additionally pure mortals have an extra 2 refresh, but they can't have any powers at all.

Also I am having a problem with figuring out a way to create a Champion of God but with a different religion for example Norse Gods liek Thor and a item of Power his Hammer. Or would that instead be a Emissary of Power? Either way I am still trying to figure out how to make the item do I use the rules for it YS167 ? The rules to me are kind of vague on this but it may be that I am new to the system.

This is it's own discussion all on it's own. You probably could tweak true faith powers to represent another kind of believer but it's still going to be similar since the powers are what they are. Items are essentially repositories of power and you buy powers for them that you have as long as you have the item. Additionally items can have their own agendas (like sponsored magic) and you would need to mention it in your high concept (which the GM could compel for all sorts of interesting things). As far as power received from another being I'd go with sponsored magic. It's like evocation and thaumaturgy but with it's own elements/theme that's defined by your sponsor (thor would give lightning, travel, I don't remember enough about thor, etc spells) and reigned in by the sponsor's will (I.E. you can't do anything with it that the sponsor doesn't want you to do).

[The Mighty Buzzard]

Okay so I attempted a character today this is what I got.

Power level 
Up to your Waist and Skill Cap at Great.

His basic background is that he has no idea of who he is or what he has done there are things he just knows how to do so he drifts from place to place (big memory loss) Since I dont know much about playing or running the game this would be a good start..... Knowing absolutely nothing.

High Concept : "This is not the Droid you seek" Meaning I have no Idea of my past or why People keep seeking me out
Trouble: "Misery Loves Company" Trouble has a way of finding me
Other Aspects: "My memory is like a still pond, empty and devoid of all life, until you disturb its surface" I figured since I didnt do my 5 Aspects in a story like session that I would instead let the Gm help decide them for me in fun ways.

Skills
Great (2 slots) : Conviction,Endurance
Good (2 slots) : Lore, Discipline
Fair (3 slots) : Prescence, Alertness, Athletics
Average (5 slots) : Empathy, Fists, Might, Rapport, Stealth

Powers (Sorcerer Template)
Evocation
Thaumaturgy
Wizards Constitution

Focus Items
Gnarled Ol' Hickory staff +1 to Offensive Control and Power (Spirit Evocation)
Gold Wedding Band +1 to Defensive Control and Power (Spirit Evocation)

Stress
Physical 4
Mental 4
Social 3

Consequences
mild 1
moderate 1
severe 1

I did have some questions about this though, In Savage Worlds, you could take Hindrances to gain Edges, I couldnt find it but there is no way to buy negatives to increase Refresh correct? Also I am having a problem with figuring out a way to create a Champion of God but with a different religion for example Norse Gods liek Thor and a item of Power his Hammer. Or would that instead be a Emissary of Power? Either way I am still trying to figure out how to make the item do I use the rules for it YS167 ? The rules to me are kind of vague on this but it may be that I am new to the system.

Gold Wedding Band would be a dirt simple aspect ripe for plot hooks and compels.

Yeah, Champion of God is just a specialized Emissary of Power really.

No there is no way to buy negatives to increase Refresh in the sense you're thinking.  You WANT your quirks to cause you trouble because it gets you fate points.

[noclue]

LOL.  This is a good example of my previous post where I learn that I've been doing things wrong this whole time.     I've been throwing Scene Aspects out there and allowing the first invocation on them for free.  Ironically, I like doing it that way.  It hasn't caused any problems so far and it's resulted in 1) slightly quicker combats since you have those free tags from the get-go and 2) more interesting combats, as people finagle their actions around getting the free tags.

The folks I play with have been doing this forever in various SOTC hacks. In DFRPG, the FATE point economy is a bit tighter, so not so much. Your way won't break anything, but will change the flavor and loosen it up in the ways you note.

@heathd666 what hindrances would you want to take?

[Morgan]

Okay firstly what do you want this character to be and do? From your choice of powers it looks like you want to be a Wizard or as close as you can be at the the up to your waist level which means the Sorcerer Template. If that's the case your High Concept should have something about being a Sorcerer, it should also probably have something about being an amnesiac or just having no memory, and probably something about what this character does. Something like "Wandering Amnesiac Sorcerer" is a better High Concept for this character. Remember most of your compels and invokes for being whatever your character is in the DFRPG are based on your High Concept. Whenever Harry reaps some fate points by frying technology at inopportune times or when he gets his Wizard on and makes with the seriously powerful magic, he is using his High Concept. "This is not the Droid you seek" doesn't really fit your character's High Concept and cool SW reference aside it won't help you when you try to invoke or compel it to be who and what you want your character to be.

Now it might work as your Trouble, but you really want your Trouble to be a complication based on your High Concept that you want to come up in the game. Do you want people actively looking for you? Do you want to know who you are and what happened to your memory? Do you want to be a wandering man of magic and mystery who wanders the earth and gets into adventures, like David Banner, Kwai Chang Caine, or Jules Winnfield? Pick whatever problem excites you and make your Trouble aspect about that.

As for your other Aspects you shouldn't just leave them up to the GM, you and the other players should have a say in it as well. The DFRPG method of City and Character Creation should really be done as a group activity, connections will be made and setting and story will be established. Doing lonely fun character creation isn't really where the game shines. So even though the character has no memory, you must have some ideas of his past. And even if you don't think about what badass things you would like your character to do in the game and what sort of interesting things could happen to the character and make some Aspects that fit. Let yourself, the GM, and the other players know what you want your character to do in the game.

Unfortunately no there aren't any hindrances that will give you more refresh. There are a few powers that will give you discounts in the form of +refresh, but they are all tied to things that you will have to pay points for. The only way to gain Refresh points is to be a Pure Mortal which will give you +2 starting Refresh, but you lose them when you buy any supernatural powers and therefore stop being a Pure Mortal. DFRPG is really good at reinforcing the whole Power vs Free Will, Monster vs Mortal thing and Refresh levels is the way it does that.

Now as to your Power choices for this character, you really should pick up The Sight, however that will put you over the Refresh and your character has become his power. So is there a way that you could take one of the lesser forms of Magic like Channeling or Ritual and still fit your character concept? Right now without The Sight, you've got the magical equivalent of a USMC Scout Sniper who is completely blind. Do you want this character to do lots of quick, flashy, kablooey type magic, or do you want slow and steady magical effects that take a long time and much preparation? From the looks of your focus items it looks like spirit magic of the quick and dirty variety is your thing, so keep Evocation, bump Thaumaturgy down to Ritual and pick a focus for your ritual magic that you want your character to be doing. Then you can afford The Sight no problem.

Now as for creating a Champion of Norse gods, the wielder of an Item of Power, or an Emissary of Power. What is the specific problems you are having? What is the Item and what do you want it to do?

[Morgan]

Gold Wedding Band would be a dirt simple aspect ripe for plot hooks and compels.

This should definitely be one of your aspects.

[heathd666]

@ Morgan
High Concept : "Wandering Amnesiac Sorcerer"
Trouble: "I dont try looking for trouble it seems to find me just fine"
Other Aspects: "
"Misery Loves Company" Trouble has a way of finding me
"My memory is like a still pond, empty and devoid of all life, until you disturb its surface"
"My Gold Wedding Band"
"Where did I come from?, Who am I? Why can't I remember? What have I done to have so many people wanting to hurt me? How did I come to be without my Memory"
"If I could only remember who I am"

Skills
Great (2 slots) : Conviction,Endurance
Good (2 slots) : Lore, Discipline
Fair (3 slots) : Prescence, Alertness, Athletics
Average (5 slots) : Empathy, Fists, Might, Rapport, Stealth

Powers (Sorcerer Template)
Evocation (Air, Earth, Spirit)
Ritual (Spirit)
Wizards Constitution
The Sight
Soulgaze

Focus Items
Gnarled Ol' Hickory staff +1 to Offensive Control and Power (Spirit Evocation)
Gold Wedding Band +1 to Defensive Control and Power (Spirit Evocation)

Stress
Physical 4
Mental 4
Social 3

Consequences
mild 1
moderate 1
severe 1

As for the Norse god I am not sure where to begin, I was guessing kinda like an example someone found an old stone hammer and BAM! became an emmisary of power for Thor. But the directions aint exactly step by step on how to do it.

@noclue no idea what hindrance I was only meaning that that was my take on aspects but it turns out it isnt like Savage Worlds its more of Aspects are good and bad and Fate is not so much like Bennies from Savage Worlds.

@ sinker
I was mainly looking at all the options so I was competent in what to tell my players when they ask me something about building a character.

@The Mighty Buzzard
Yes I am starting to understand it a bit more the Champion of God is more of a Emmisary of Power but with a magic sword 

I was simply trying to make sure I understood character creation before I sat down with my players and tried to make characters with them is why I was making a character and asking about it thanks for all the replies and helpful advice

sincerely
heath delashmit

[noclue]

@noclue no idea what hindrance I was only meaning that that was my take on aspects but it turns out it isnt like Savage Worlds its more of Aspects are good and bad and Fate is not so much like Bennies from Savage Worlds.

Right. Any hindrance you think up is probably a good candidate for an aspect.

[Silverblaze]

Constructive Criticism:

I'd only have my high concept relate to memory loss, maybe one more.  If you can come up with a few more; different ones, they can be compelled for other reasons and net you more fate points in more situations.

Might suggest something odd about your magic... this could be used to compel the PC to seek an answer as to why his magic behaves "x" ways.  Could be used to compel the PC to do strange things with spells also.  Accidently cause collateral damage (that causes trouble for the PC) etc.  Then you'll get a fate point.

"Where did I come from?, Who am I? Why can't I remember? What have I done to have so many people wanting to hurt me? How did I come to be without my Memory"
- may be served in a more concise way:

"My past haunts me begetting more problems."

also "misery loves company" seems to double up with your Trouble aspect.

Looking better as you refine it though.
This could allow more than people chasing you.  Could find innocents you may have hurt or helped before seeking you for help, or fleeing you.